It wasn’t really a dig - I was just trying to come up with an older computer language. I took a COBOL course in college - it was torture!
The point isn’t that you shouldn’t list COBOL (or whatever) - it’s that you shouldn’t post a three-point description of your work with COBOL (or whatever) on page 2. List it as a proficiency at the bottom, and move on. It’s if a relevant proficiency for the job you’re applying for, it will come up in the interview. If you KNOW it’s a relevant skill for the job - then feature it prominently.
And to reiterate - computer languages are proficiencies. Resumes should communicate, above all, skills. I’m not an IT guy (nor do I hire them) - but would any employers out there want to hire a programmer that isn’t concise? Isn’t that the whole point of programming?
It can depend on the job. I would say that *most *cover letters get tossed, but if you’re applying for a creative writing position, people will notice if you have a well-written cover letter. It’s kind of like a pitch letter, only for a job.
Well, that’s because the HR people don’t what they mean. Their customer is a manager who says “We need someone who has 8 years experience with X Y and Z, and knows P, Q, R, and S.” The HR people have no idea what those are, or why the hiring manager wants those things, or if those requirements are actually relevant to the job. They just know to throw out any resumes that don’t have those buzzwords. Since they’ll have a big stack of resumes left over after throwing out 90% of them, they don’t care. Their job is to provide the hiring manager with a stack of resumes that fit the requirements he gave them. And since that stack will be 10 times larger than he can actually read anyway, he doesn’t care if he put in irrelevant requirements. He just needs to find 5-6 people worth interviewing.
Knowing that I know how to program Java/J2EE is pointless, except for an entry level hire, and tells nothing about skills. Java on Windows? Java on Unix? Java oracle interfaces? Java Sybase interfaces, Java SQL Server?With JDBC or custom? Java 1.2, Java 1.3, Java 1.4 Java 5.0 Java 6.0? Java for LDAP? Java for x500? Algorythms in Java? Java in a agile shop? Java for SOX financial systems? Java in a team? Code reviews? Maintenance? new development? Enterprise? From Requirement specs? Under supervision? AJAX? Struts? Hibernate? Faces? Swing? Websphere? Tomcat? 24x7 uptime? Portals? XML? CSS? XSL? Webservices? Telephony? Real Time? Eclipse? IRAD? SUN ONE? Advanced HTML? XHTML? EJB? Junit? Threading? JNDI? SOAP? Message Service?
And Hundreds of other I can’t think of off the top of my head? Under the job title of ‘Java Developer’
Are you really claiming you would rather call up 250 people asking if what they have done as a Java programmer hoping to hit the right combination, rather that 250 resumes where you can look for the 5 who have what you need?
That is a one sentence resume that would make me as a hiring manager want to talk to you. The resume is to get you the interview, not to convince me to hire you.
Not trying to be sarcastic. This might not translate from my SW development/consulting field to manufacturing.
[ul]
[li]Proficient with Java across multiple operating systems, for multiple tasks including financial, maintenance, intranet, back scratching, window washing and AJAX. [/li]
[li]Implemented new Java scripts/programs/whatever for inter-departmental needs across a wide-ranging organization. Example A (brief).[/li]
[li]Adapted to the ever-changing demands of new iterations of Java over the course of 3 years, 6 versions of Java, 3 different operating systems, and 14 different organizational departments.[/li][/ul]
It doesn’t have to be a list - in fact, it’s both less impressive and more confining if it is. Instead of highlighting your ability to adapt to different Java needs and situations, you’re boxing yourself in to very specific uses of Java.
Except no one is looking for someone to adapt to new Java needs They are looking for someone who can jump right in and take over a J2EE application on Solaris using Eclipse in an agile environment and knows ANT, Struts, Hibernate, Tomcat, Oracle and JDBC. They aren’t willing to teach, or give a learning curve.
You either have to tell them you know that in a resume, or hope they are going to call and ask for details. telling them is the better option.
It does have to be a list, because HR is scanning for keywords. If your resume doesn’t contain those keywords, it won’t be seen, regardless of how good a match you are. It should be pretty clear from reading this thread that IT has different standards from the rest of the world.
Which is, AGAIN, why I mention putting that list at the very end. Having a giant paragraph detailing every aspect of each job is redundant, because (as so many have mentioned), HR is just going to run it for keywords.
Absolutely agree about not just listing languages known. That’s why 2 pages may not be enough - I want to know if someone’s knowledge of a language or technique is from a class taken in college or from the real world - programming in the small or programming in the large. That might take a few lines, but is worth it.
Programs should be concise but not too concise. I don’t want the old APL trick of cramming a big program into one line.
My hiring process is similar to yours, except we never used job fairs, and got a lot from our website where people applied. When I was hiring I’d work with HR on a set of keywords for the search which we refined. Getting the initial set of resumes was easy - narrowing it down to those worth calling for a screening took the time, and that is where details helped. If I had two resumes, one saying he had skill X and the other giving details of a major project using skill X, the second would always get the call, and the first might never be contacted.
A resume should be like a bikini. It covers everything that is essential, reveals much that is interesting, and inspires the wish to meet the user in person.
And every keyword will be in there, and then the first 30 or so that meet all the keywords will be passed to the Manager(and often right on to the team lead) The ones with no details will be thrown away. The ones with details that don’t match the job will be set aside, The ones with details that show it is a good-to-great match for the job will be notified. If none are a good match, then they will look through the set aside ones for anybody who might be mostly compatible, or go back to HR for another set of Keyword matches.
All a lack of necessary details is going to do is get you thrown away. I keep saying it. They need that level of information before they can consider you for the job. They are not going to beg you for that level of detail, when hundreds of other people have it right there on their resume.
I’m not in IT, I’m in chip design, but the process is the same, even if different buzzwords get scanned for. Many resumes I’ve seen have a skills section at top where all the keyword get put - but no one hires based on that alone (or even does a screen based on that.) A barrista might well pass the screen for Java programmers.
Yes, It is right there. This isn’t like 2nd grade where 5 pages is some insurmountable task.
I guess it is just a IT mindset. It workers and managers like to have the relevant information onto which to base a decision as efficiently as possible. Providing detail is a good thing. You will never convince me that a manager is going to make 30 random cold calls fishing for info, when they can scan nice detailed resume and get it it 30seconds. I have never seen it happen, when I have sat in as the tech advisor for a hiring, any resume like your format has gotten seriously back-burnered for ones with actual detail. What you gave is a highlights section, which is right after the objective. But no way can even be considered for competancy.
The first part of the resume, with the skills and keywords, is like the executive summary. If that interests me, I will look through all the pages to find the jobs that demonstrate the skill that I care about. Actually, the ones I’ve seen which are that long have a lot of papers and other technical activities at the end, which I’ll skim to see the places where the paper were published and if I have read or seen any of them.
I’ve never seen a resume I’ve thought was too long, I might well have seen some which are too short, but I probably rejected them before knowing for sure. I might have seen some where the person shot himself in the foot by including stuff he shouldn’t have, but I’m grateful for him making my job easier.
Can we all agree that different fields have different expectations regarding resumes? And that modern electronic processing of resumes may well make the “one-page rule” obsolete?
If no one ever handles a paper copy of your resume, and said resume is in plain text (say, something you’d open in Notepad), how would the “one-page rule” even be strictly applied?
You IT folks sound like you are applying for jobs without having any idea of whether the job is for a COBOL programmer or J2EE in insurance or manufacturing in development or QA. So you had better make sure everything you’ve ever done is described in detail. Or perhaps you can’t be bothered to adjust the resume for various jobs.
Maybe the long resume is a good idea if you are sending it to a headhunter who will market you to multiple and varied positions.
But if you are applying to a job where you know what the job is, adjusting your resume to highlight the relevant experience and why you are a good fit and why this job is a good next step for you is an approach that helps your resume after the keyword screen.
If the long resume is working for you, maybe you don’t need to change, but if your resume is not jumping out at people, trim the fat, leave the meat.