Should retiring "Boomers" prepare for some hostility from younger workers?

Sorry but 70s? Late 70s the peak of the Boomers were in their mid-twenties. Your claim: “Boomers voted themselves huge pensions and retirement benefits, more than any generation before or since” yet as the Boomers began moving up from the entry level positions in the workforce pensions have been dropping rapidly.

Big factual fail, pal.

As Boomers got power they voted themselves worsening pensions. Defined contribution came up and Boomers did not take advantage of those plans anywhere near as much as Millennials are doing.

The reality is the exact opposite - Boomers were raised with parents who had pensions, had that as an implicit model, and as pensions went away failed to comprehend the importance of investing instead (with the defined contribution plans) to prepare for retirement - complicated by the fact that they then actually keep living longer and longer.

Workers today, all age groups, are more productive because of technology. Duh. Not the question, not your claim. Still waiting for you to demonstrate that of those workers today those who are Millennials are more productive per capita than currently working Boomers are.

You can claim that they are “not getting shit done” but you really are pulling it out of your ass. Yes there are anecdotes, but there are anecdotes for each side. Yes, you are entitled to your humble opinion about that, but you are not entitled to claim those humble opinions are facts.

Furthermore, most young people do not have student debt. For those who do, the averages are pushed up by physicians, etc.

Also, a little looking around on the internet shows that up to 60% of the boomers provide financial support to both their parents and their adult children. This was from Forbes magazine and the AARP website. I did not find anything about percentage of younger workers supporting boomer parents.

Went back and looked again. Every website I looked talking about children supporting parents were talking about boomers aged 55 to 65 taking care of their parents, not 21 to 40 year olds doing so.

Baby boomers were not in their prime in the 70s.
Some of us were just graduating from high school.

I never had a job that had a pension plan.
I never voted myself a big pension, never knew I could.

I think some people have us confused with my parents generation.

They were the ones who could walk out of high school and get a job with a living wage. They didn’t even have to finish high school.
My parents are the ones who benefited from an economic boom. Their first house cost the same as their annual salary. My father retired at 50 with a full pension.
However, that generation also worked their asses off at jobs most of us wouldn’t work today.

When I was growing up I could go for months without seeing my father because of all the overtime he worked. Doubles, triples, swing shifts, and when he was home he was sleeping. Often he would get home after we were in bed and be out the next morning before we were up.
He was lucky, he worked in Data Processing, not on the assembly line. That was back when a computer room took up a whole floor and had the benefit of air conditioning.

Do you have any idea what it is to work on an assembly line?

You stand in one place for hours (with only two 10 minute breaks and a half hour lunch) doing the same thing over and over and over.
You might be the one picking up the spare tire (and not a doughnut, a heavy real spare tire) and put it in the trunk. Over and over and over, lifting for hours on end while standing on your feet. No heat in the winter, no AC in the summer. If you were asked to work overtime you didn’t dare turn it down because if you didn’t want to there were plenty of others who did.
Every few weeks or months you’d rotate with somebody else in the plant. So now you might be picking up a battery and putting it under the hood, minute after minute, hour after hour, day after day standing in the same place.
Then when you got off work if could be a half mile walk just to get out of the plant, and another half mile or more walk to your car, if you were lucky enough to have one. Otherwise you could join the crowd at the bus stop and stand and wait for the bus, after standing at your job for the last 8 or 12 or 16 hours.

Or maybe you worked at the soap factory, standing shoulder to shoulder with the other workers, picking up bars of soap and putting them in boxes.

Or whatever mind numbing, back breaking, repetitive job you could find. And you were happy for it because it beat farming, or coal mining, or ditch digging, or whatever other suck ass job your parents had.

You think the boomers had it easy?
My first job we could be fired for walking in the door one minute late. One guy I worked with got fired for taking off the day his father had a heart attack. My boss told me that for every employee there he had 50 applications sitting in a drawer. You didn’t show up somebody else would and they didn’t give a damn what your excuse was. We didn’t even make minimum wage. One of my friends had a horrible burn on her arm from somebody laying a fry basket on it. She came in every day with that nasty burn (actually in violation of health code but to miss time meant losing your job).
And we were damn glad to have the job, any job, because at that time for most of us our parents only supplied the basics. You wanted nicer clothes, you bought them yourself. You wanted a record album, you bought it yourself.
Things that people today consider to be necessities we considered luxuries, and we had to buy the ourselves because our parents didn’t feel guilty about saying ‘no’.

I talked before about the sex discrimination I faced.
That was in an office.
Do you have any idea what baby boomer women faced in the factories and assembly lines? Half the men there wanting to drive you out because women were taking jobs away from men and the other half of the men hoping to get you alone so they could have sex with you. I never knew how bad they had it until I met a woman who had worked with my father. The constant threats, the constant cat calls and how my father stood up for them.
Who knew my racist, bigoted, sexist father would take three young black women under his wing and tell the men at the plant if they wanted to mess with them they had to go through him first? Sure shocked the hell out of me but I guess it shouldn’t have. He thought no women belonged in the plant, precisely because of the way the men acted. Once they were there he’d feel they deserved to be treated with respect. It was crude, rude and sexual harassment was not illegal then. This is what baby boomer women endured getting into the work force. If they had not put themselves out there to open those doors they would still be closed today.

I remember filling out a job application in the early 90s. Every company I listed as working for in the 80s not longer existed because of corporate raiding - except one that was rumored to be a front/money laundering company for the mob. Guess even the corporate raiders were afraid to go there. The guy interviewing me wondered aloud if I was bad luck.

Maybe the early baby boomers got to take advantage of the booming economy of the 50s and 60s but by the time the rest of us were coming along things were already being turned upside down. I expected to be like my father, get a good job at a good company and stay my 30+ years and retire on a nice pension.
By the time I was hitting the corporate world there were no pensions, and most companies weren’t going to last 30 years. Because I was part of the BOOM! there was lots of competition for what jobs were out there. When I got into computer programming most companies had fifty to several hundred programmers. By the time I got out computers had developed so much and money had gotten so tight that most companies were operating with less than a half dozen.
I saw so many of my co-workers lose their jobs, I was lucky because I always had a 6th sense about when the company I was working for was about to be bought out. I always got out in time and landed on my feet.

I don’t want to pick on anybody because I know no everybody of the same generation isn’t the same.
But what I hear so often anymore is 20 and 30 somethings complaining about not being able to get a job but there are jobs out there. They just consider the jobs to be beneath them, They don’t want to work fast food, well you have to start somewhere. They don’t want to stock grocery shelves, mop floors, wait tables, or clean up at a construction site. They want a cushy job at a nice salary to start- didn’t we all. Or they don’t want an embarrassing job, they don’t want their friends to see them doing menial work. I know people in their 20s and 30s complaining about how hard it is to find a job and then they get fired from every job they get because they cannot understand the concept of showing up on time, or that you actually have to do the work when you get there. Or they put in one application and think they will get the job and stop looking.
They want everything now, they have no concept of taking a shitty job because it might lead to a better job. Or that it’s easier to find a job once you already have one.

Oh, and y’all do know that the people who are collecting Social Security paid into it right? It’s their money, not some kind of government handout.
My father paid the maximum every year of his working life and then died before he had a chance to collect on it.
I’ve been paying into SS for 43 years, and the last 20 of them I have been paying 15%. If anybody thinks I should feel guilty for taking back what I have put in they can kiss my lily white ass.

This is one of those discussions that always runs into “broad brush” problems head first… especially because statistical evidence that furthers the argument will be of the “over half” or “two-thirds” type, and the demographics of the SDMB means we have a lot of first-hand Boomer experiences that come from the significant minority that has led productive lives and done what they can to make the world a better place.

That said, there is a real disconnect between the Boomers as a block, as that “statistical average”, in some of the key conditions that average has faced, and the generations below them, especially the millenials (which is another dumb and overly broad generational definition, incidentally). Health care costs have drastically outpaced inflation over the last 30-40 years, and ditto college tuition over the same time period. This hasn’t necessarily helped Boomers - after all, as parents, they’ve paid a lot of that tuition for their children, and they’ve paid for a lot of that health care themselves. But now you have millennials entering the job market in a recession that is statistically worse than anything that has happened in the Boomers’ lifetime, facing all of those higher costs during periods that would normally be the lowest-earning periods of their lives even if the economy was decent. Meanwhile, we’re on the verge of another crisis because we’ve lowered tax rates on the highest earners during the times when Boomers are in the prime salary portion of their careers, and among our other upcoming crises are the fact that two-thirds of Boomers have drastically undersaved for retirement. Despite, again, generally (though not universally) favorable economic conditions, including the '90s run-up in the prime of their careers.

Oh, and the Boomers have been the most powerful political block since at least the early '90s; if we’re using those awkward broad definitions of generations that include Obama ('61) as a Boomer, then we’re at Boomer presidents for 24 years running, with a strong likelihood that gets extended to 28-32. Over half of both the House and the Senate are Boomers. The millennials will at least get to elect someone a few decades down the road; Gen X may just get skipped over entirely, politically. In related news, Boomers as a whole are ten or fifteen points more conservative than people under 40, according to the polls. As a group, they are most likely to deny global warming and be against social issues like gay rights and legal weed that enjoy broad support among younger generations.

… but again, all of this is statistical and very broadly brushed. So we shouldn’t really out and out “blame” an entire generation. The Boomers brought us a ton of frickin’ awesome stuff, both in their collective economic power and in the steps they did take towards social justice. Plus, they were really good about vaccinating their children; younger people have some really stupid ideas, too. But it’s also not hard to see why there might be an initial impulse to have this discussion if you just look at things by trends and averages.

If by “good jobs” you mean jobs that provide health insurance -

Cite - pdf.

ETA this is only for private sector jobs. Government sector is, of course, much higher - 99+%.

Regards,
Shodan

The following, while based on fact, is mostly my opinion. Feel free to laugh and mock if you wish.

It wasn’t too many years ago in the US when kids (and the community) were expected to take care of the aged. People gave from what they had to help meet the needs of the elderly. Some folks did fall through the cracks, it was far from a perfect system. With the advent of Social Security and other ‘entitlement’ programs that responsibility was largely, over time, shifted to the government. The government takes from what people have to help meet the needs of the elderly. It’s much more impersonal. People who are given entitlements, especially from an impersonal ‘system’, become, well, entitled. It’s human nature (and the reason that “pure” forms of socialism, communism, and democracy can only exist in theory). Some people still fall through the cracks, though perhaps fewer, but the flip side is that entitlements and their associated costs tend to increase steadily over time until the pendulum hits the extreme and gets forced back in the other direction (see Greece for an example). It’s far from a perfect system.

The only way to have a perfect system is to invent perfect people.

Since you asked: you win for the biggest load of whiny crap in the thread.

I recall many of the problems cited in this thread were said of the WW2 generation back in the late 70s into the '80s, much of it contradictory as well: They’re not retiring, we can’t move up until they retire, and when they do they’re going to collapse social security/medicare/society itself. They have all the savings, except for all those who didn’t save and are expecting me/my generation to support their lazy asses.

Someday, in 20 or 30 years, some 20 or 30-something person is going to start a discussion pointing fingers at Gen-Xers, Millennials, etc as being the lazy/greedy/“won’t retire and let me have their jobs” bastards who just need to get into their retiree homes so they can be safely forgotten like any proper old fart should. :slight_smile:

I’m a relatively old Boomer, born in '51, and I was on the tail end of pensions. I had one from the first company I worked for, but none since. And at 35 I wasn’t making the decisions, and no one else my age was also.

As for education, you seem to not believe that anyone is older than we are. Opportunities for high school grads started disappearing as manufacturing jobs vanished. My father, who couldn’t go to college because his mother was dirt poor, got a good and eventually high level management position at the UN with just a high school diploma. Where I used to work an experienced guy with high performance ratings, and a team leader, could never get promoted because he just had an Associates degree. (Despite his immediate management trying hard.) Today he’d probably not get hired. So all this stuff was happening to us already.

Wait, what? If the Baby Boomer retires, you resent them because you have to pay for their retirement benefits (SS/Medicare/whatever). And if they grit their teeth and keep working, then fuck them for taking all the jobs. Are we supposed to just voluntarily crawl out onto our individual ice floes and drift away when we hit 65? Is this the Baby Boomer version of Logan’s Run?

I, too, was confused as to why one has to fund the retirement of people who are still working. :smiley:

I’ll agree to back off a bit on my argument about pensions. They were still more popular than contribution style retirement plans up until the early 90s, but I was wrong when I said the Boomers were more likely to have a pension than previous generations.

This is part of the argument I was making about how difficult the current job market is. Maybe your parents did have an easier time getting a job than you do, but Millennials have it worse by far. Like you said, your associates degree high-performer probably wouldn’t even get hired today.

That doesn’t tell the whole story. Your cite tells us only that good jobs are in fact good. “86% of people with good jobs have health insurance” means nothing, and does not portray an accurate estimate of how many good jobs there are.

Almost 35% of workers had jobs that did not offer insurance in 2010. Do you think more of that 35% were Boomers, or Millennials?

All the generations born here have it better than most on earth.

And we still refuse to learn from the past and keep on making most of the mistakes again & again.

Grandpa said to my Dad, “My Dad said to me to not do that, it doesn’t work out well. I did not believe him but he was right. So I am telling you now.”

My Dad did not believe him but did learn the hard way. I heard these kinds of things real early in my life and so I did not do those things that my Dad said would not work out. I did mess up in new ways but not those ways.

Humanity seldom pays any attention to the past so we take 2 steps back & 2½ steps FWD and then say how hard we are having it. And round we go again. :smack:

Kind of depresses me. :frowning:

I don’t think I had it hard
Life is life and there are obstacles.

I don’t like somebody pointing their finger my generation and saying we had it so easy and we are the blame for all their woes.

Grow up and pull on your big boy/girl panties and get on with it. Very few people have the good life handed to them on a silver platter.

Now here I don’t disagree with you much. It’s the knee jerk reaction of times be hard so the people who came before us were assholes bit that deserves mocking. That and your made-up facts.

Yes, many Millennials have huge educational debt loads … yet many have debt loads not as large as they could have been because their Boomer parents had saved for education more than for retirement and helped as best they could.

Yes, many Millennials are under-employed and living at home into their later 20s … and are having that room and board covered for them by their Boomer parents.

The world is a different place. Entire industries are gone from our shores. The rise of China and others as economic powers and manufacturing powerhouses is not because of the Boomers. The flight of manufacturing to the Mexico and then further South is not because Boomers are assholes. The ability to outsource a host of cognitive work to India and elsewhere, and to have technology increasingly take over other careers, has not occurred because Boomers are self-absorbed.

No question in my mind that relative to my kids I had it easy. OTOH my parents started out dirt poor children of the Great Depression and dragged themselves up pushing me and my sibs into opportunities they could only dream of.

Boomers are stuck taking care of ailing parents and unlaunched adult children, amny will be left with little for themselves as they keep living (that living longer which really bothers some of the younguns) and have no right to complain at all. On balance we have done pretty okay. But suck it up boy. Times be tough. Just how the dice rolled. Deal with it.

I’ve never met any hatred of Baby Boomers in real life but I’ve definitely come across quite a bit of it on the 'net. Another board I frequent had this same discussion which ended up going to about 68 pages filled with comments along the lines of, “FOAD Boomers”. I’m not sure if they were wishing death on their own parents as well.

I’m 62. I work like a navvy. I never take sick leave (unlike my younger colleagues who take days off at the drop of a hat). I’m not bludging on the system because I’m still working but somehow I’m still at fault for taking away a job from some lazy-arsed 20 year old?

This has nothing to do with generations, but rather the economic climate. You think people graduating in 1995 (younger than Boomers) had a hard time getting a job?
I personally have never had a problem getting a job, but that was partially because I got into the computer science field early. There were fewer than 200 CS PhDs in the whole country the year I got mine. Maybe fewer than 100. Made life easy.