Staff Sgt. Robert Bales guilt was never really in doubt, but developments in his trial now include a deal for him to confess while taking the death penalty off the table.
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Afghans are incensed, feeling that the US has betrayed them.
I’d have put this in Great Debates, but I wanted to do a poll as well. ETA: Poll will close in 90 days.
Very interested in what people think about this, so I look forward to reading people’s thoughts on the matter.
I voted no, but that’s due to general opposition to the death penalty. And my opposition is because justice is not always perfect and we have executed innocent people before, so I would rather the highest sentence available was life without parole.
However, if I were god, and therefore had omniscience and could tell with 100% certainly whether or not someone was a murderer, I would use my god powers to execute all murderers on the planet (instantly and painlessly, I’m not a monster. Incidentally, the same would go for rapists).
So while I did vote no, that’s more an indication of the justice system than this particular case. If we had perfect justice, I would expect Bales to be executed.
Same here. I admit that I’m ambivalent. ‘I’m against capital punishment, but in this case I’ll make an exception.’ No; if you make exceptions, then you’re not against it. There are many people who deserve snuffage, and I’m not going to shed any tears over them. But I can’t make exceptions if I’m against CP in general, so I voted No.
Politically, it gets interesting. Many Americans will think it’s unfair to put him away for life. Executing him would ‘prove’ that the President is a Muslim Sympathiser. The kind of people who believe that are channeling Sheridan: ‘The only good Muslim in a dead Muslim.’ OTOH, if he’s not executed (and he won’t be), it will ‘prove’ to our enemies that the U.S. has robbed them of justice.
Turn him over to the Afghan women.
Another general anti-death penalty no here (although thinking about it now, a lot of factors that set me against the DP don’t apply here.)
I have no problem with the death penalty in general. I do have a problem with arming people, training them to kill, placing them in a hostile environment, then punishing them for transgressions.
Strange. The other 80,000 (or whatever) soldiers we’ve sent to Afghanistan seem to have made it back without slaughtering whole villages of sleeping civilians.
I’m not defending his behavior. I’m troubled by the idea of the death penalty in this case. Also, the fact that most do not go on murderous rampages doesn’t imply some aren’t close. (PTSD info)
I’m doubting Nidal Hasan, a man I would take great pleasure in doing any number of unspeakable things to and that we’re treating better than the families of any of the soldiers he killed, will even get death. The death penalty has been so watered down, is so insanely costly, and takes so many decades to follow through on, that it’s effectively “dead” to use a pun of sorts. I’d say that means most major crimes in this country go entirely unpunished. There simply isn’t anything we can do to punish someone that has done something unimaginably heinous. Kill 1 person, kill a million people, we can only do the same crap.
Bales needs mental help, but death? Not even remotely.
When you’re lying out wounded on Afghanistan’s plains,
and the women come out to cut up what remains,
you roll to your rifle and blow out your brains.
– Rudyard Kipling
I think he should. I am completely against the death penalty unless it involves those in the military.
I voted ‘no’ because I’m against the death penalty. But if I weren’t, I would be undecided because there are too many factors in the case that I am ignorant of, not the least of which is his mental state at the time of the rampage and any previous history of violent or erratic behavior.
Care to expound on this a bit?
Nice Hollywood view of PTSD you got there. Your own link never mentions murderous rampages or anything even close. Depression, isolation and sometimes suicide happens with severe PTSD. Violence is not a usual symptom. I’m not saying he didn’t have mental problems. But PTSD did not make him murder anyone.
Sure.
For me, when those in the military commit heinous crimes, such as the one listed in the OP, they not only hurt those directly affected but usually the organization as a whole. The Shrink who attacked his own men a few years ago probably hurt unit cohesion in addition to the damage he caused while this guy hurt America’s standing in Afghanistan. This is seen by the anger that Afghanis now have. He ruined the lives of countless families and made it more difficult for the United States to accomplish its mission and, as a result, probably put more American lives in danger.
Also, as a veteran, I hold other military members to a very high standard.
Works for me.
Exactly what I was thinking.
[I love Kipling. I grew up with thered leather Schwastica edition:p]
Some very interesting opinions so far; thank you to everyone who is weighing in.
This case is quite different from most death penalty cases. We know he did it. He knows he did it. The villagers know he did it. His guilt is not in doubt.
His mental state, as his defense lawyer says, was terrible but falls short of the line for any kind of insanity defense. In other words, he knew what he was doing as he was doing it. His use of illicit alcohol and drugs, for me, does nothing to mitigate the horror and scope of his actions.
And, like RandMcnally, I believe that members of our military need to be held to a very high standard of conduct, for much the same reasons that he lists.
I think Staff Sgt. Bales should be put to death for not just the heinous crimes he committed, which in my mind are so far over the minimum threshold for the death penalty that I cannnnn’t even see the line, but also for the way that he fucked over his unit, the US Armed Forces and the entire United States’ efforts in Afghanistan.
If anyone thinks it’s relevant info, I am not and never have been an opponent of the death penalty; to me, there are some people that the world is better off without.
I am staunchly anti-death penalty but I voted yes to execute here. This trial does not belong in the U.S. He should be tried in Afghanistan and they would most certainly execute him. If the U.S. does not abide by any rules (Geneva convention, war crimes) why should anyone respect us and our “help”. He should have remained in Afghanistan and been governed by the laws there UNLESS our military says that his actions were part of our military effort- in which case there are several other trials that need be hastily arranged.
How often do you Kipple?
Pretty much what Disheavel said.
I’ve been anti CP my entire adult life because there is just too much that goes on in a brain, in my opinion, to justify judging someone else’s actions to their death. And I still strongly hold to that. But the irony of holding a black and white position because I refuse to see things in black & white terms is beginning to wear on me. I know I’m in the minority of humans so to hell with it, I ain’t fighting that fight anymore. Kill the killers, there are too many of us anyway–we don’t need to respect the lives of those who don’t or can’t respect others.
I say hand him over to the Afghans. They’ll kill him, they will find they can only do it once, and there will not be fewer corpses when all is said and done. Perhaps those who lost loved ones to his actions will find closure in his execution, or perhaps they will realize they too have participated in the wanton killing of a helpless human being (even if he IS guilty, a prisoner is helpless) and maybe something in their hearts will be ashamed of that and will haunt them to the end of their days. Maybe they will realize there is no such thing as justice when you’re willing to be just like the criminal you want to punish. But as I continue to learn more and more about people, the more I realize the vast majority are vile, selfish, bloodthirsty dogs and there will be no morsel of shame in his execution.
Give him to the Afghans and let them do as they please. The act will not bring peace to Afghanistan, it will not improve the world’s opinion of the USA, it will not unkill his victims, in fact the number of murderers in this world will not even diminish. Nobody will remember this in 100 years anyway.