Let me begin by first saying that I am in no way depressed or suicidal, I actually really enjoy life. But I was recently thinking about human rights (and the lack thereof in many parts of the world) and I feel like a certain, fundamental right has been wholly ignored or otherwise incorrectly enforced in many parts of the world. The right to die.
The most common argument that people pose when they’re discussing this topic is that of free will. They claim that the suicidal individual is so impulsively driven by these suicidal urges that rationality and logic don’t come into their equation of thought which makes us morally responsible to help them and to get them to see the “light.” A lot of these people also falsely assume that life, or even mere existence in some cases, is always intrinsically positive and intrinsically better than death regardless of the circumstances. This comes off as being silly when you realize that death is a state that no human being has any speck of knowledge about. Nothing. Nada. Zero. We have absolutely no idea where we go, what we experience, who we become, and so forth. ANYTHING could happen after death and if someone wishes to find out what that is, who has a right to tell them they shouldn’t?
Secondly, I can brain storm situations where I would much rather be dead than exist. If someone winds up in such a situation and wishes to leave, who has the right to force them to stay? It’s like forcing someone to stay at a party that they’re not enjoying.
Thirdly, we are forced into life just as a slave is forced to work. We had no say in the matter and even if life is a “gift”, I think we can all intrinsically agree that it is up to the owner, and solely the owner, to decide what to do with his own gift, even if it means disposing of it.
Do you think suicide clinics should be set up where any adult of legal age can walk in and painlessly die? Maybe in a dimly lit room with a cute nurse who’s holding a big needle? Maybe some soft music playing in the background? Or is this inhumane? But then if it’s inhumane, isn’t it also inhumane to force a suffering individual to exist just because YOU assume that things will get better for him?
It’s hard to “discuss” when I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. I’d like to see some safeguards in place to ensure we’re making at least a good faith attempt to properly diagnose and treat mental illness if that’s why the person is having suicidal feelings. So I’m okay with screening for Depression before allowing suicide or assisted suicide.
But after ruling out inability to give informed consent and/or some minimum time of treatment for mental and physical disorders, if the person still wants to die…yeah, I’m okay with that. I think there are many, many fates worth than death, and unrelenting mental illness is certainly one of them in my book. Yes, sometimes people want to end their life because they have Depression. That doesn’t mean they should never be allowed to end their lives if they have Depression.
This has been stirring around in my head since it happened. A couple of weeks ago, we ended up having to recommend euthanasia for a client’s dog that was having seizures that we couldn’t get under control. Likely it was due to “something bad” and we would have had to hospitalize the poor thing from Saturday to Monday under general anesthesia just to see the neurologist and confirm a diagnosis of something bad via MRI and then offer multiple thousands of additional dollars for surgery if possible, or euthanasia anyway.
This client hadn’t been through euthanasia of a pet before, and as I explained the procedure, I could see the wheels turning in her head. She furrowed her brow, paused, looked at me earnestly and said, “well, why don’t they do that for people?” What could I say? It’s legal in three states (in a different form, and only for confirmed terminal illness, but still), and I plan to move to one of them when I get older. The rest of what I have to say about it would take the rest of the night.
I mentioned an aunt of mine who died from Huntington’s, and my client knew of someone who died of it, too. We both agreed that was no dignified way to go, and it was really kind of a horrible way to go since they basically starved to death. Why would we choose that over drinking down some bitter pentobarbital and being able to say good bye with dignity?
I think nowadays fewer people try to defend the status quo with moral arguments. I think it comes down more to the practicalities of how we can make sure people aren’t coerced into it and all that.
But while I see some of the difficulties I don’t think they are sufficient to mean it should stay outright illegal.
God forbid, but if a relative or friend of mine was virtually paralyzed and incontinent, and decided they wanted to press that button I’d understand completely (because I’d want the same).
I can agree with that, with some limitations, but unlike you I recognise that, no, we don’t all intrinsically agree with that. And I can understand and sympathise with those weighing the impact on others more heavily, even in principle, even if I don’t
Imagine I have a wife, two children, a ton of friends, a job benefiting my local and wider community, and a bout of soul crushing depression. After being brought back from my suicide attempt I’m immensely grateful. Or imagine I’m Stephen Fry. Would your suicide booths evaluate people for depression? Measure their lives for an acceptable level of suffering to escape? Where do you get off assuming a perfect life is good enough for someone?
Personally I think choosing euthanasia when dealing with prolonged and incurable suffering should be an option, but your oversimplified, short-sighted and pragmatism free suggestion is something else entirely.
A facility for this is only really needed for those who are of sound mind but not able-bodied, which probably accounts for the majority of people who would indeed want to kill themselves. After all, an able-bodied adult that is thinking rationally and logically will easily be able to kill themselves. Plenty of ways to do it, and if you’re thinking clearly, there’s not going to be any of this failed attempt nonsense; you’re going to be able to come up with a pretty much foolproof method of ending your existence. If you fail at suicide, it’s pretty much a clear indication you weren’t thinking clearly enough to do it right.
For those people that aren’t able bodied, though, yeah, there’s no reason we shouldn’t permit medical professionals to assist in this, and require medical staff to at least convey the person’s request to the appropriate people (since we cannot assume that this person can seek out such people on their own, we must require those tending to them to contact the appropriate people on their behalf).
In principle, I think people who are of sound mind but have a severe legitimate incurable illness that causes intense physical suffering should be able to pass on. And I think in principle, people should be able to sell their non essential organs (are there any besides kidneys?). But in both cases, we need stricter laws in order to avoid situations where people are being pressured into it.
Yes. I have felt for most of my life that suicide is a viable option. I have been dealing with/suffering from major depressive disorder for over 40 years and thinking about suicide all that time as well. I have a plan on how I would/will do it that involves the fewest people as and as little mess as possible. In fact I have it penciled in for next week, but then I do that every month.
There should be safe guards in place to prevent people from an impulsive act in a moment of crisis, but yes it should be legal.
I would prefer a hunky nurse and a room full of kittens, with a few in my lap as I fall a sleep for the last time.
A person’s most fundamental property is his person; his life; his existence. If any property at all should be protected by property rights, that property should. That includes the right to dispose of that property in any way the owner sees fit. He does not have to justify his decision to anyone, only to perform such disposal in a way that will not endanger public safety.
Religion takes this fundamental right away, since the imaginary deity is presumed to be the one that owns the person (or, if you like, his “soul”). Many, many people have been coerced into prolonging a life of misery because they were told that the Great Enchilada in the Sky would be angered if they committed suicide.
If you don’t mind going out in a painful and terrifying way, then there are lots of pretty good methods, yes. But I don’t believe people should have to go out that way.
In terms of non-horrible methods, it’s not so easy to find something that won’t possibly leave you alive but very sick / a vegetable, or won’t attract the attention of the authorities (as obtaining many poisons / ingredients is likely to do).
My personal guess is that the most practical, struggle/pain free way is the car exhaust method. But I’m not sure, and not sure how to become sure, and that’s my point.
If you have the right to life, you have the right to death: if you don’t, it’s not a right, it’s an obligation.
The right to remain silent is not an obligation to remain silent; the right to vote is not an obligation to vote. The right to speak freely is not an obligation to speak; the right to pursue happiness does not obligate one to do so.
Why should the right to life be any different?
And what about zombie pirates, should they be allowed to not-not-die?
I don’t think mental illness should be a disqualifying condition. The only thing that would be a huge concern to me would be impulsive people in a heightened emotional state taking advantage of services devoted to suicide assistance. This could be prevented by requiring a waiting period. But whether the pain is physical or psychological, it is still pain. Everyone who is suffering should be able to opt out of this world, not just those who fall in one arbitrary category of illness.
In my ideal situation, the waiting period for suicide assistance would be six months to a year. The act of signing up qualifies you for immediate counseling services provided by the government (funded through the licensing/permit fees paid annually by euthanasia clinics). You don’t have to have counseling, but you have the option. And by law, anyone who is in an active business or domestic partnership must demonstrate they have legally terminated these relationships OR have notified their partners at least 30 days before their “departure” date. People with children under the age of 18 are disqualified from government-sanctioned suicide unless they can demonstrate these children will be amply provided for financially (e.g., guardians have already been appointed and have been notified that a suicide is impending). Debtors (including anyone carrying a mortgage or a car note) and people awaiting civil or criminal court cases would be disqualified. These measures would be in place to ensure that people aren’t trying to weasel out of their worldly obligations to society. They are still free to exit on their own, though.
I think suicide should be legal. But the government has a vested interest in overseeing it and making sure everyone and their momma isn’t bailing out. Government has invested resources in all of us. As sterile as this sounds, suicide represents a waste to society. So government is obligated to prevent suicides when it makes sense to do so.
If you only have a month to live, you are the definition of someone who is shit out of luck.
I’m fine with having a very short waiting period in those kinds of cases. But I don’t think those kinds of cases would constitute the majority of clientele seeking suicide assistance.
I wouldn’t support people walking in off the street. There should be a process for getting a suicide prescription. Much like how transgendered people can’t just get a sex change operation on a whim. There should be some period of time where the person has to meet with counselors and/or doctors to evaluate options and make sure that suicide is the right decision.
I wouldn’t want people to commit suicide because their relationship broke up or they lost their job. It’s a permanent solution, so it should be for something which is a permanent problem.
I’d like to see some safeguards in place to ensure we’re making at least a good faith attempt to properly diagnose and treat mental illness if that’s why the person is having suicidal feelings. So I’m okay with screening for Depression before allowing suicide or assisted suicide.