Not even white people want to watch white people play basketball. As for the NFL, I thought that’s what the the QB was for.
More important, I think, is that with worse general prospects and fewer non-sports role models, black people are more likely to attempt to make a career out of sports. It’s a very poor strategy - if you don’t make the NFL, which has a maximum of 1,696 jobs at any one time, then those football skills you spent thousands of hours honing are all but useless.
If you look at the data, it shows that white children start playing sports earlier than black children; that the top five states for boys’ sports participation are heavily white; and that participation is highest among suburban children and lowest among low-income and urban ones. So, it’s not a matter of higher participation by black children, but rather more black children sticking with it through high school, college, and the NFL.
Ok a couple of points:
1- It’s not totally wasted time. It is probably good preparation for being a coach.
2- Wouldn’t your statistics, that white kids start playing earlier, be a function of that sports before middle school and high school are not funded by the school, in other words, it takes money to play, hence white families are more easy to afford team sports for younger kids.
3- But, if black kids start playing sports later but still wind up being better athletes… does this not mean they have some physical advantage?
4- I’m really not sure what to think, to be totally honest. As you described if you think football/basketball is your best/only alternative to a better life… I think it is pretty easy to see you would really really dedicate yourself to that sport.
Generally yes, but it really depends. In occupations where there is a shortage of qualified people (eg. Black PhD Computer scientists) then there is an issue that exists largely outside of hiring practices at a given companies. However, those companies would likely benefit by having AA policies that help to encourage, support, and train under-represented people when they are young. In short, they should create the supply rather than just be complacent about the lack of it on the hiring end. That said, they generally shouldn’t be forced to hire anyone.
Unsurprisingly, this generally doesn’t work for poor people because they still couldn’t afford private schools and other things they’d need that the government now provides, but wouldn’t if they collected less in taxes, even if they kept every dollar they earned.
Even putting aside the fact that this is not an apples to apples comparison since the tests are not the same year to year, even a cursory glance at the economic progress we’ve seen in this country relative to everywhere else in the world, due largely to people who attended public schools, would make most infer that their tax dollars have not been wasted educating people like Jeff Bezos, Steve Jobs, and Warren Buffet.
I suppose such a thing COULD be possible, but there is no evidence for it, and there is unlikely to be any given the lack of any known connections between phenotypic race and athletic skill. Further, when you look the changing demographics of sports over time, you see wild swings based largely on external factors that have little to do with genes related to race. For example, it was not that long ago that Jews dominated pro basketball. Here is some commentary of this phenomenon at the time:
Interesting huh? But you can also look to the baseball to see an ebb and flow of Black participation. In 1986, Blacks made up 19% of the league, but by 2014, we were 8.3%. MLB is now 28% Hispanic too. Genes cannot really account for that drop or gain, so even if it were true that Blacks on average are better athletes, the effect would be minimal given the small numbers of highly skilled pro athletes, and the lack of any measurable or demonstrable and enduring effect.
You know what, to tell you the truth, there are people on here who seem to cling to what could be called racist ideals. I don’t like that and I don’t like them.
It “seems” like black people have an advantage in sports but until there is definitive data one way or another… I’ll wait until the data is in to form a final opinion.
To some degree. Coaching obviously requires familiarity with the sport, but it also requires other skills that don’t come from playing the sport. But sure, some ex-players can find coaching jobs.
Probably. Poorer children also have more obligations than affluent children, like caring for siblings, that can preclude sports.
Clearly, though, starting earlier and participating in greater per capita numbers isn’t enough for white folks to dominate the NBA and NFL, though, so we can set that theory aside.
Not necessarily. The youth sports stats I linked to include why children quit. For boys:
39% - I was not having fun
29% - I had a health problem or injury
26% - I wanted to focus more on studying and grades
22% - I did not like or get along with the coach
18% - I did not like or get along with teammates
15% - I was not a good enough player
12% - My family worried about me being injured.
If you’re an affluent kid, and thus more likely to be white, all those are potentially good reasons. If you’re dedicated to sports as the best, or even the only, way for you to make a good living, then only “I was not a good enough player” is going to get you to quit, no?
That’s my opinion. Pro athletes are a self-selected group, and the end of a long winnowing process. They aren’t necessarily the best athletes, they’re the ones who stuck with it, who majored in what the coaches told them to & had improper academic assistance, and so on.
Ok, so what we are kind of saying is this:
I’m going to give my best attempt. Let’s say, for example, that the best world class level violin and piano players all had long fingers. Now, it would be very simple to think that all is needed to do that job well is long fingers… but really it is more like this:
Long fingers help to play the piano. Therefor, as kids, kids with longer fingers are more likely to stick with the piano. Therefor, as adults, it would seem that “all you need” to do good is to have long fingers, but in reality, there was a self selecting process going on the whole time…?
So, if we magically changed society to a state where the popularity of piano playing replaced the popularity of sports, we would expect to see lots of adults with long fingers as piano players. And, in reality, it would be true, long fingers do help, but there is a self selecting process that is more involved.
Ah. Thanks for crunching the numbers. I am actually slightly surprised the effect is so small.
Yes, I do recall you making the same stupid argument once before (as you tend to do). If I recall, others linked you to cites like this and this, and you ignored them as you tend to do with evidence that doesn’t fit your worldview. More importantly, rather than play dueling citations with you repeatedly linked to Sander’s flawed research, we can look at the reality of the situation. Every academic has heard of this theory in one form or another, yet, few schools are voluntarily eliminating legacy, racial, gender, or any other preference that gives advantages based on things other than test scores and grades. Why is that? Are they SO blinded by liberalism and misplaced egalitarianism that they are actively spending money on policies that make their school and the intended beneficiaries of such policies worse off? Does that make sense to you? That a group of the generally best educated people in the country are risking their own stature and employment to get worse outcomes? It’s possible, but highly unlikely. Couple that with the fact that multiple other studies have come to the opposite effect, and the conventional wisdom that people tend to improve more when they are with slightly “better” competition than when they are with slightly “worse” competition, and you have a rational explanation that explains the behavior of the academy.
Exactly. An easier analogue may be to think about why poor people pay the lottery more often even though their money is more valuable to them. People with better options tend to exercise them.
There are even fewer professional coaches making a good living than professional players.
I am sure that matters, but I think the point was to note how time playing at an early age is of little effect in the end.
But how do you know they are better innate athletes? I am certain many promising White athletes are told by their parents to focus on a more realistic goal.
Yes, but the point is that an individual’s personal best option might be a generally poor option.
I think I can agree with all of that.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
The above is why it doesn’t make sense to assume Blacks are superhuman or to think “waiting for the data” is a good strategy.
I see no reason to rule out the possibility.
I’m doing my best to respond honestly and openly to the topic. I know my views are not popular. I know they do not make me look good. But you watch the NFL and you see the speed and agility of these players… it’s amazing. Even the white quarterbacks rarely have the speed/agility that linebackers and running backs and wide receivers and safety have. And I’v been punched, a lot, by black people sparring in the boxing ring. It is my assessment that, in general they have more speed than white people and latinos.
That’s a distinct point from the one I’m making, but it’s a reasonable point in its own.
You don’t see a lot of things most fair-minded people looking at the available evidence would.
Superhuman has nothing to do with it. But all evidence points to different groups having different genetics which result in different outcomes. Look at simple examples like Kenyan long distance runners and blacks playing corner in the NFL to see overwhelming number disparity that cannot be explained by “culture” alone.
Affirmative action to correct this injustice? Sure. Why not. Since quotas seem to be legal and desirable.
When it comes to basketball white people aren’t greedy. They wouldn’t ask for a white Jordan, Shaq, or LeBron. But maybe a white Drexler, Wade, or Iverson? It’s funny seeing white people go crazy over Curry and Griffin. The one place where the one drop rule is reversed.
Fuck reforming the NFL because fuck the NFL. Fuck well paid scrotum-scratching brutality. Wanna see Russel Crowe suited out as a Packer or an Eagle, holding up x-rays of brains turning to concussion cheese and yelling “Are you not entertained?!”.
I could not be proud of encouraging young black men to such a life. The opportunity to ruin one’s body for money is not a step forward.
It is amazing. That’s one reason why people love sports; you are almost assuredly watching the best people in the world do something they’ve trained their whole lives to do.
That’s because a highly specialized game like football doesn’t require QBs to be as fast.
But why do you think your anecdotal experience is caused by some sustained, underlying genetic truth related to race? Think about the Jewish basketball players in the 30’s. Don’t you think their gentile competitors thought the same thing? Don’t you think the people facing Jackie Robinson right after baseball integrated thought the same about Black people? Or that a person of the same ilk might now think the same about Hispanic baseball players rather than Blacks? You are making a general assumption based on a singular point in history. No doubt others could remark about how quick and skilled athletes like Roger Federer, Jordan Spieth, Conor Mcgregor, Ronaldo, Lionel Messi, or a hundred other non-Black athletes are.
0 starting non black cornerbacks, a speed position, in the NFL is 100% nurture?
I grow tired of “anecdotal” being used as a pejorative. I was a member of the best boxing gem in NYC, I went to tournaments and fights and saw all the best fighters from the whole city.
I’m not saying that is the only factor involved here, my experience, but in this case it is an activity that I do happen to know something about.
Yes, but you are naming a handfull of non white people. I never said black people were the only people who have speed and agility. I said it seems that they have an advantage in that area.