Maybe, but those groups aren’t split neatly along phenotypic racial lines, which is what is being alleged.
Let’s do that. You’ll note that both Kenyan and Ethiopia tend to dominate distance running (along with the US). Now let’s look at a map. Where are all those genetically gifted runners from Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti, South Sudan, Uganda, and Tanzania, their nearest neighbors? Do you really think the distance runner genes happily stayed within those artificially created borders, or do you think there are cultural, economic, and environmental factors (among other things) that allowed for elite runners in those two countries to succeed disproportionately? How do you explain why distance running is dominated by 2 countries in East Africa rather than all countries with Black people? Why aren’t Black Americans dominating US distance running if those Black runner genes predominate?
Why can’t it? We are talking about roughly 70 people.
With regards to the 70 cornerbacks, what is cultural about running fast? And it’s not as if whites, Hispanics, and Asians don’t participate in football.
With regards to the Kenyan runners, I have never advocated all blacks are this and all whites are that. I’m merely stating certain subgroups are disproportionately represented in specific athletic endeavors and that some part of that discrepancy is genetic. And we can fix this problem with affirmative action. What’s wrong with equality?
Yes, in my opinion. Just as the dearth of Black pitchers and catchers in baseball is. Or the death of Black NFL owners is. Or the dearth of Black goalies in the NHL is. Yes, 97% of cornerbacks are Black, but 98% of special teams (I assume they mean kickers and snappers) players are White. Why is the disparity at one position so much more remarkable to you than another? Is it just because cornerbacks are fast?
It’s not a pejorative; it’s pointing out the fact that it often only gives you a narrow exposure to what is actually happening.
I have no doubt that you do, but let me ask you how you know these people actually punch harder and are quicker? Did you take any measurements or data? Did you even poll multiple others in a rigorous way? I am not discounting your opinion. I am just pointing out that data are usually better than anecdotes even when the latter is sincere.
But why do you think that? There are entire sports that require both attributes that are dominated by non-Blacks (eg. Soccer, Tennis, MMA, Hockey, Wrestling, Gymnastics, Rugby, Lacrosse, etc.). Why do those athletes not occupy the same space in your mind?
Everyone no matter what race, gender, etc. should be treated equal. Affirmative action is shit and just makes the problem worse. A true conservative believes that everyone is equal. I wish that we could have a real conservative leader stand up for everyone. But we are stuck with Hilary clinton, bernie sanders, Donald trump, etc. The brilliant people in the United states that would make great presidents are to smart to run for president. They know better.
Being a good cornerback is not just about speed. It’s a specialized position just like QB or punter.
But what subgroup happens to be uniquely located in two geographic areas. Kenya wasn’t even a country with it’s current borders and government structure until 1964. I am not saying all genetic populations are the same, but rather that what makes Kenyan runners great and what makes Ugandan runners less great is not genes since they almost assuredly overlap considerably.
I don’t think we have a similar understanding of AA or the general concept of equality.
Have you ever watched an mma fight? Do you know who Wes Welker or dirk nowisiki is? (Sp) How about a tight end for the Patriots. Gronk. We are living in a time were people of all races are held up and shit on at the same time. A women or man from Africa can be a brilliant scuentist. A white boy from the United states can be a great basketball player. A white guy can have a ten inch dick.
The data comes from being punched in the face! (well, headgear).
And from watching.
I didn’t have a radar speedometer. But if you hang around a professional boxing gym for over a decade you learn to tell the difference between someone who punches fast and someone who punches slow.
Yes, but are those white people just as fast and quick? Or, if more black people started to participate in those sports would they dominate those sports as well?
And yet the heavyweight champion has been White for a while now. So are most great MMA fighters. How do you explain that considering your experience?
Maybe in some, but in others like Soccer, there are already tons of Black people participating. Regardless, your theory just makes little sense. For example, why are Brazilians and Argentinians great at soccer, but not at most Olympic sports? Why are Americans, Chinese and Russians relatively bad at soccer, but great at Olympic sports? Why doesn’t the African continent dominate all sports if Blacks have innate speed and agility advantages? Why isn’t your assumption that maybe you happened to have been exposed to disproportionately skilled Black athletes rather than all of them must be more innately skilled? What makes you comfortable saying the latter?
2- Because speed and agility is not the only requirement to win a boxing match. Rocky Marciano is undefeated with the best record ever, 49 wins, 43 knockouts (88%). But he was notoriously slower and less coordinated than his opponents.
3- MMA, as stated draws upon an ameture rank of sports that takes more $$ to participate in.
All very good points… let me get back to you after I reflect on your comments.
Take hockey for example. Not only are 2/3 of NHLers from Canada (which isn’t as uniformly white as people think, but we’ll get to that), but the foreign players are mostly from mostly “white” nations like Sweden, the Czech Republic and Russia, and the regions of the US which are the “whitest”. Not only that, but hockey is an expensive sport in equipment and ice time, particularly compared to basketball, and you can see why it would favour people with high socio-economic status.
However, that’s changing, particularly as immigrants integrate into Canadian society and catch hockey fever. And that’s a big part of it. Canadians really, really, really like hockey. Like, you could stack all the other sports in the world up against hockey and still fall way short of the interest. Immigrants are catching the hockey passion as their kids grow up in Canadian culture, just like my kids would end up being super passionate about soccer if they grew up in basically any other country in the world. And we’re seeing the seeds of that - one of the best NHLers ever, Jarome Iginla is the son of a black immigrant. One of the very best defencemen today is PK Subban, the son of a Jamaican immigrant. Darnell Nurse is another up and coming Canadian black player, and related to Donovan McNabb. Looking to America, you’ve got guys in the past like Mike Grier and now Seth Jones, the son of former NBAer Popeye Jones (and his other son is a potential pro).
Moving beyond black athletes, you’ve got guys like Nazem Kadri (son of Lebanese immgrants) and Manny Malhotra & Jujhar Khaira (both sons of Punjabi immigrants) reflecting the growing adoption of the sport by new Canadians. Hockey Night in Canada has its own Punjabi-language broadcast. Somewhere in the recent refugee influx is the first Syrian-born NHLer. It’s all about passion and opportunity.
Oh snap, you’re right. That was dumb of me, since obviously his father is black and I remember a couple years ago people joking that Curry’s mom was younger than his sister, so I knew what she looked like too.
Dirk is good, but I wouldn’t hold him up as an example of white athleticism. There actually have been some white players who can jump really well, but they tend to be scrubs or role players. There was one in particular a couple years ago but I can’t remember his name. I think he was in a dunk contest, but I’m not sure. Think he was on the Bucks or Wolves. Anyone know who I’m talking about?
Right. In fact, competitive colleges are doubling down on racial diversity by supporting initiatives like the POSSE program, in which groups of minority students are selected for a sort of “team scholarship”. The mutual academic and social support they contribute doesn’t change their skin color or their racial identity, but it seems to have a very significant effect in improving academic performance and graduation rates.
If something as simple as providing minority students from non-college-educated family backgrounds with a support group of classmates and advisors can make such a big difference in academic outcomes, then evidently innate academic ability wasn’t the real problem in the first place.
But that often doesn’t apply in other cases either. People who support AA don’t say that it is a remedy for past discrimination in a particular area, they simply point to the fact that there is a racial imbalance, for whatever reason, and that this alone is something that needs to be corrected for its own sake.
Surely a better support group for anyone would result in a general improvement. Do you have any quantified exam numbers for your “very significant effect” ? As you are aware, highly privileged black students (as a group) substantially underscore their SES peers, and score barely on par with very underprivileged whites and asians.
I’d love some numbers that show this is “evidently” not a reflection of (average) “innate academic ability.”
You’d have to really have your head in the sand not to think that much of our average group differences are not due to genetics.
Pick almost any attribute that’s been studied across self-identified groups and see if there is more evidence that the average source gene pools of those populations have been separated, or homogenized.
Then ask yourself if evolution diverges or not.
A west african source pool and a european source pool have been separated for something like 70,000 years. A self-identified US black in the NFL probably draws an average of 80% of his genes from a west african source pool; a self-identified white perhaps an average of 5% of his genes from the same pool (and that’s being generous).
Since mother nature forgot to be egalitarian when she invented evolution, it seems highly unlikely the white guy was blessed with a genetic pool as super good for football as the black guy.
We are starting to unravel some–though by no means–all of the gene pool differences. For example, homozygosity for ACTN3R (and heterozygosity–577RX) is much commoner among west africans than than whites and asians. Based on the frequencies for variants of this single gene alone, we would expect whites and asians to be (on average) genetically disadvantaged for power sports. If you are homozygous for the 577X variant, fuggetabboutit, power sports-wise. And of course the idea that nature would tinker with just that one gene is beyond ridiculous. Sample article, if you are interested: “In addition, the frequency of the α-actinin-3–deficient genotype (577XX) varies from 25% in Asian populations to <1% in an African Bantu population; the frequency in Europeans is ∼18%…
Interestingly, all male Olympian power athletes in our cohort had at least one copy of the functional R allele of ACTN3 (associated with the presence of α-actinin-3 in skeletal muscle), suggesting that “every variable counts” at the highest levels of sporting competition.”
