yep!!
You gotta start somewhere. Besides, an iceberg is a finite mass. Whittle enough off, and you’ve got nothing more than a big ice cube.
Is that price worth it? What if a foreign terrorist network attempted to use terorist tactics to force the U.S. government to somehow cede power to it?
If the U.S. is that hamstrung, then we are really a pitifully weak nation. Islamic nations can afford to go ape in a war, and we cannot? Then, we lose before we start.
The Arab world might as well go in and forcibly take Israel. They want it – we’re in no political position to stop them, apparently. We have to play nice.
How far does terrorism have to go before we quit being the “good guys”? I’m ashamed that our nation is painted into such a tiny corner.
Being a “good guy” means playing by the rules. Nothing to be ashamed of.
The only trouble is working out what the rules are.
I’m totally against pausing the bombing for the observance of their holiday. Yes, it would be a “gesture” towards the Muslim faith and yes, I realise the importance of the PR needed. But the perception of the US is really warring the Muslim faith is not totally our fault in my opinion. WE know it’s not a war on Muslims, WE know it’s a war on terrorism but apparently we cannot totally convince the Muslim world that this is the case. No matter what we do or what we say, we’re suspect. I’m pissed that we are taking the heat for this misconception when we could use a little help when we need it badly. It’s not like any Muslim countries in this so called coalition have stepped up to the plate to assure Muslims throughout the world that this isn’t a war against Muslims have they? Just where DO the Arabs stand in all this and how come they haven’t been pressured to speak out on our behalf? Where are our “good friends” the Saudis in all this?
I think pausing to appease Mid-Eastern Muslims isn’t going do much to win over people who have already made their minds up or who will forever be lukewarm. They will never trust the west regardless of what we do. Is is really justifiable to pause this effort in the hopes that US damage control is worth the momentum we have gained? In my opinion, all’s fair in love and war. The very idea that the coalition would even consider a restriction based upon being politically correct is ridiculous. I see it as an absolute insult to the thousands who were MURDERED and their surviving families! Funny, I dont’ seem to recall that Osama’s plans called for compassion when he ordered the ramming of the towers on a Tuesday morning in downtown NY…why should we even dream of pausing our efforts? He drew us into this war on purpose and he (as well as the world) needs to understand that once you have awakened the sleeping giant that we will not stop until the job’s finished. Ramadan or not.
That’s a good point, tradesilicon. I think if the U.S. continues bombing through Ramadan, extra precautions should be taken to ensure that innocent civilians are not hit.
True, but there is also concern about alienating those who are “lukewarm” or even some who whole-heartedly support the United States - and this will happen if civilians are killed while observing the holy month (fasting, praying, etc).
Because Usama is not the sole target? He killed thousands of people with no compassion. Should the U.S. show itself to be equally lacking in compassion?
Originally posted from Pennylane:
Because Usama is not the sole target? He killed thousands of people with no compassion. Should the U.S. show itself to be equally lacking in compassion?
True on the point about Osama but the fact of the matter is, in this Afghanistan conflict he IS the figure head of our target. I don’t mean to say that once we hit him personally that it is all over. I meant that the Al-Quada (spelling?) had no compassion in organizing the killing our innocents so I’m saying in turn our objective and drive shouldn’t be clouded by a Muslim holiday. Hey, it’s bad timing I grant you but by all means, I think the war should continue on. Hardcore Islamics in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia or Palestine won’t give us the smallest credit if we do pause…so what’s the point? The world needs to know that we couldn’t be more serious. I think if anything, we should turn it up a notch to drive the point home. Do you think they would bother to pause during Christmas or Easter if given the chance?
So I am saying…yes, we should not bother with compassion in this case. It’s a war, not a dress rehearsal.
Well that may be an understandable code of conduct during a war but in that case, the distinction between the U.S. and the terrorists may become rather cloudy for some. If each side shows itself to be equally compassionless, there is a limit to the sympathy merited by the side which was attacked first.
I favor a halt in military operations for Ramadan.
More than just PR, there are a number of practical benefits.
Firstly, time is on our side. Indications are that the Taliban’s grip is weakening, they are cut off from virtually any reliable source of supply. Winter is going to be tough on them. We most likely have done as much major damage as we are likely to with air strikes, and still have almost three weeks to catch anything we may have missed.
It will give a tremenous boost to such Muslim “moderates” as may be. Likely, they are remaining silent to avoid being targeted by the radical elements in thier respective countries. Ultimately, if we are to isolate and nuetralize the “terrorist” elements, we will be depending on them to assert themselves against the radicals.
We are getting close to a time when air attacks are of diminishing effectiveness. There never was that much to bomb in the first place. We should approach the prospect of a major committment of ground forces in an Afghanistan winter with the greatest reluctance: any repeat of the Soviet’s experience would give the maximum possible aid and comfort to the enemy. Conversely, a stance of such confidence in our own power to control the situation at will is bound to be very impressive. They ain’t going anywhere. If they haven’t starved or frozen by spring, thier numbers will at least be radically reduced by defection.
Further, it allows time for the process of “nation building” to develop a foundation. Simply allowing the Northern Alliance to take over after we get the head of OBL would be criminally irresponsible. They are warlords and thugs, for the most part.
And lastly, it would permit us time to concentrate on the humanitarian problems. There is little question that we are the most powerful nation in the world. Let us prove that we are the greatest.
elucidator, the practical points you bring up are perhaps much more important than any PR: if we have reason’s of our own to stop any part of the operations that’s what we should be thinking about, not our enemies’ convenience.
But time is not on our side - the military will have a much harder time in the winter, so they are making a push to gain as much ground as they can now.
According to Islam, if any action needs to be taken to preserve life, or any other necessary activity, it is allowed, and those who break the fast during Ramadan are allowed to do so. There is no reason to think that if we stop the Taliban will as well.
People who are not involved in the fighting should have 1) help for the winter and 2) (as much as possible) the ability to observe their Holidays. We should take extra care to avoid civilian targets. But when Taliban start hiding fighters and weapons in Mosks, what should we do?
But what can, practically, be done by any outsiders to help? Food drops thus far have been called “PR moves”, and willbe even more difficult in the winter. I’m not saying we should stop, only asking what can be done.
The activities directed at the Taliban and Al-Queda should not stop for a moment, only because those groups will continue their operations, and have a chance to take a breath and make it more difficult to ultimately defeat them. More risk for our military, and no advantage to anyone but our enemies. As I said before, we have no evidence that such a pause would give us any points with the “Muslim” world - we can do nothing right according to those who are protesting. Our people are butchered and we are still the agressors.
This excerpt is one of the most cogent arguments I’ve seen as to why we should not pause in our campaign against the Taleban.
• Jonah Goldberg, The National Review: Muslims have been killing each other, and other people, during Ramadan for centuries. Mohammed himself opened a clay urn of whup-ass on tribes outside Mecca during Ramadan, in 624 AD. Iraqis and Iranians killed each other over Ramadan with great aplomb during their war. Anwar Sadat of Egypt launched the Yom Kippur war on Israel during Ramadan, with little respect to his own religion and even less for Israel’s. Besides, as Tod Linberg of Policy Review points out, if we did stop bombing because of Ramadan, that would send the signal that we are waging war against Muslims - instead of against terrorists, as we keep insisting.
[sup]BOLDING MINE[/SUP]
PS: “A clay urn of whup-ass”, bwahahahahahahaha!