Should The USA ANNEX Siberia?

Product meeting Notes/April 11, 2000
(1) MA4PK3000-type PIN for ADVANCED ENERGY/Voorhees, NJ:
Bill Doherty visited the account, and got clarification on the package preference: they want a flat-top DO-4 (for the 3KV application), so thay can solder a strap directly to the anode terminal. Also, they height of our prototype is too high-the samples would not fit into the enclosure. For the 5 KV application, there is more latitude, as the design is not yet fixed.
Pavel feels that he can build an equivilent package, so it was decided to build at least 12 new samples of this type, which customer will do lifetest on, in an actual system.
(2) NDT1214 (USA Instruments): we have completed a wafer of the 1N6638 type, which has been prepared as half anode up, half cathode up. These are now at saw, and will be assembled in PowerMite III package, for the dual-antiparallel configuration. Pete Cicarrelli will have samples assembled.
The second lot (with the larger area die, for lower Vf) was accidentally destroyed in fabrication (sawing). The third lot (smaller mesa) was lost , now located. This will be split, with half of the lot given metallization for Powermite assembly, and the other half given standard metallization, for assembly in the leaded package. Expect these out next week.
(3) Low Rs PIN (UPP1005 with Lowell die): Wtown has put metallization on two wafers that were diffused by Lowell, these are to be assembled by Lowell. This will be a check on the Rs level that we can achieve. Bill Doherty will check on this.
(4) PIN Diode Chip Program: we have reviewed the (preliminary) chip specification from Hill Engineering. We will offer Hill our best match to the spec., and see what compromises are acceptable. Karl will check to see if we can metallize the top surface of our wafers with electroless gold plating.

Should we annex Siberia (or at least the Pacific coast region of it)? It looks like a good case for me-the local people are having their resources stolen by the corrupt oligarchy that runs Russia out of Moscow these days. What would American statehood mean for the Siberians? An IMMEDIATE increase of their standard of living-not quite American standard yet, but close to it! They would also have access to American markets-we would buy their oil, fish, coal and uranium at market prices, instead of giving the stuff away to Moscow! With American capital and technology, Siberia would be really humming in a few years-so why let the Japanese get the jump on us! We should IMMEDIATELY send the US Navy in to Vladivostok, and declare an independent republic. Later, the leaders can apply for US statehood!
This could be the deal of the century-WE need Siberian resources-THEY need American products, capital, and technology-NONE of which are coming from Moscow!
Let’s pull a Panama while we have the upper hand!

The owls are not as they seem.

The crow flies at midnight.

I will inform Number One that our plans are advancing smoothly.

The only reasonable response to the first half of the OP is to post a link to a thread on Fathom: http://fff.fathom.org/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001583.html

(Nobody can’t say I haven’t done my part for the international conspiracy. Remember to send my Trilateral Commission souvenir badge, please.)

In all seriousness, I would think that annexing any country or part thereof would depend in large measure on whether they, or a reasonable portion of them, want to be annexed, whether such an annexation would cause problems with another nation, and whether we feel the annexation is worth any problems identified in the second part. And I see no reason why the Russian Far East (Siberia is the inland area) is at all interested in being annexed.

Plus the U.S. in the 20th Century was not particularly good on dealing with the “external territory” it does have – see the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Guam, the Trust Territory, American Samoa, etc. for details.

Should we annex Siberia (or at least the Pacific coast region of it)? It looks like a good case for me-the local people are having their resources stolen by the corrupt oligarchy that runs Russia out of Moscow these days. What would American statehood mean for the Siberians? An IMMEDIATE increase of their standard of living-not quite American standard yet, but close to it! They would also have access to American markets-we would buy their oil, fish, coal and uranium at market prices, instead of giving the stuff away to Moscow! With American capital and technology, Siberia would be really humming in a few years-so why let the Japanese get the jump on us! We should IMMEDIATELY send the US Navy in to Vladivostok, and declare an independent republic. Later, the leaders can apply for US statehood!
This could be the deal of the century-WE need Siberian resources-THEY need American products, capital, and technology-NONE of which are coming from Moscow!
Let’s pull a Panama while we have the upper hand!

Um, I take it the OP is speaking to us from the mother of all boring staff meetings?

Visit Vladivostok instead.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/facility/slbm/vladivostok.htm

I found this ominous.

We already have Seattle–what do we need Vladivostok for? Next thing you know, we’ll be up to our armpits in Siberian grunge rock bands and Siberian coffee shops.

http://www.travel2russia.com/city9.htm

Oh, okay, I get it.

So it’s all a conspiracy by Tacoma to get its share of the limelight, eh? Well, it won’t work, I don’t care how many stuffed animals the Arsenyev Primorsky Krai Museum has in its collection. (I bet they don’t have a Princess Di Beanie Baby.)

Are the Siberians hurting? :slight_smile: Let’s face it, Moscow is about 7 time zones away, and no one comes to Sibera on a lark. You’re out there all alone, and isolated. Not too much government intereference.

Besides, it’s unspoiled. We move in, next thing you know they’ll be delivering pizza and Mickey D’s on the corner will be hiring. And Wal-Mart will be advertising “Low Prices, always.” Blech.

Hmmm… I have two X’s, one V, and three I’s in Alaska. My foolish adversary has left only one V in Kamchatka. According to my map, there is a dashed black line running from Alaska to Kamchatka. That means I can attack, and with a roll of the dice, Kamchatka will be mine! Onward to Siberia, Irkutsk, Yakutsk… And when all Asia is mine I will get 7 new armies when it’s my turn again!

[evil grin]

I am serious! The Moscow (Russian) government has peoven itself incompetant and corrupt. WE can run Siberia much better> So I propose:
-dust off the old Hay Treaty which established the republic of panama: we can rewrite to suit the ternms of Siberia. We can then gain access to the WHOLE northern Pacific! With the resources of Siberia, we will have a grip on the world that cannot be dislodged. To hell with Japan! -we won’t need any allies once Siberia is in our grasp.
And, this will mean a much better life for the people of Siberia-I just saw that they are having the coldest winter in 50 years-people are literally freezing to death-because moscow siphons off every pemnny they can lay hands on.
Lets DO IT!
(I’m feeling very 1900-ish today-let’s make this the AMERICA MILLENIUM!)

No. We should buy it.

Seriously. Think Louisiana Purchase for the new millennium.

The influx of cash will boost the hurting Russian (that is, everyone not living in Siberia) economy.

American corporations can charge in there and start mining and drilling for oil and whatnot, finally easing OPECs petroleum stranglehold, all the while providing jobs for American citizens.

http://www.nypress.com/content.cfm?content_id=366

No.

I’m sure the US has the power to annex Siberia. I’m also sure the Russians would resist. Could the US military win? Yes, very probably. Now let’s see some possible consequences:

[ul]
[li]Inevitable US casualties televised across the world. However poor the Russian military are, it only takes one torpedo to score a lucky strike on a troopship, or one airborne unit to stumble into advancing armour, and you have a made-for-TV bloodbath. Would the US public be so supportive of war with Russia over Siberia? Would any president attempting it survive another term?[/li][li]Russia, now a bitter enemy, moves increasingly right-wing, with hard-line politicians like Zhirinovsky and his ilk increasingly popular with a Russian population furious at being “invaded”.[/li][li]A new arms race begins; military build-up, although slow and painful for Russia’s economy, is inevitable.[/li][li]Russia starts massive arms sales to anyone who wants them, freed from US-led international pressure and desperate to kick-start a military economy.[/li][li]Western Europe, particularly Continental Europe, becomes increasingly anti-American; partly out of principle (the US, the “global policeman”, warring over a disputed annexation claim), and partly out of fear of being the focal point of a new Cold War.[/li][li]European trade focuses increasingly less on US imports as a result, while investment opportunities in Russia disappear overnight[/li][/ul]
Okay, so some items on this list may seem a little exaggerated, and maybe it wouldn’t be an actual shooting war. But at the very least, the US would make an enemy of a country that has the potential to either restart the Cold War or to arm enough other countries to destabilise global politics.

I’m intrigued by the idea of buying Siberia. Are the Russians that desperate? Wouldn’t national pride (never to be underestimated, even if only in the electability thoughts of national governments) prove an immovable object?

Great “what if?” thread, though.

Well…

Let’s not forget that Siberia is currently attached to a country which, however manifold its military, economic, and political problems may be, does still have The Bomb. Even if most of the Russian missiles failed to launch, blew up in their silos, missed their targets, etc., they could still really ruin our day.

Yeah, I’d leave Siberian cession up to the Siberians. I have read that independence fever is running wild in the Sakha region (what’s basically known as Yakutsk on a Risk board), but I don’t know about any desire for them to join the U.S. Purchasing eastern Siberia outright does seem a tad too… uh… nineteenth-century for us to attempt, and I don’t think the Russians would be willing to go alone with it. Remember the fuss they made about returning the Kuril Islands to Japan? Nope, I don’t think they’re willing to give an inch, and moving in and just taking the territory would be rather too sticky (though I still love a good game of Risk).

But I think there’s something to this idea. Eastern Siberia is packed with minerals that are just itching to be exploited. If the United States doesn’t get in, Japan or China will surely do so. China most likely will, once they get their economy into high gear—which I’m sure they’ll accomplish within the next twenty years. Chances are that the European Community will get in on this, too. From an environmental standpoint, I’d prefer that Europe or the U.S. get there first. Not that Europe and the U.S. have exactly pristine environmental records, but there’s at least a sort of conscience that nags the citizenry and thus the leadership. I dread any exploitation of Siberia—whether by the Russians or by anyone else—since any power that’s eager for hasty development typically doesn’t give a damn about spoiling the ecology. Consider Mexico, which is far more densely populated than Siberia, and how corporations are willing to let it go to hell just to cut a few corners. Hailing from Pennsylvania, strip-mine capitol of the world, I can vouch that damage to the ecology doesn’t necessarily just go away.

So, what would we do with Siberian-America? Would we make them speak English, or let them speak Russian? And I can just hear Patrick Buchanan railing against yet another large border for poverty-stricken immigrants to flood across…

Now that’s a good idea. Russia keeps dignity and gets huge influx of cash, Siberians get access to decent heating, America gets some new real estate and some decent all year round skiing.

Why not just buy the resources i.e. give em money for the oil etc. ? like er, free trade.

What next, invade japan because they have good factories ?

If you gotta have it, buy it ! Money is the new warfare, and its legal, and the UN will back you up AND the russians won’t mind !

I can’t believe you are actually considering fighting russia, i mean, they have loadsa nukes and an ex-KGB guy is in charge.

I think conquest is all a little passé. Remember folks, the US is numero uno because it is the first Empire to use economic influence ahead of military power – that’s all part and parcel of the capitalist era.

Standard form would be to lend them a whole lot of money (that they won’t be able to pay back) to buy US made goods and already outdated technology, make a US ‘military presence’ part of the deal (to secure your investment), ‘democratise’ the country (i.e. ensure a US friendly Government is always elected – ‘supported’ as necessary by CIA assistance to ensure ‘terrorists’ don’t get any message out to the people) and make them buy US military hardware (that they can’t maintain without US support).

When they are in danger of defaulting on all that stuff they bought from you, send in the World Bank to make sure the loan (dependency) is re-structured for infinity.

Conclusion: You own the country.

Worked pretty well for 50 years.

Of course, in the olde days we did things a lot more ‘directly’

I f we STRIKE NOW (while Moscow is effectively impotent -look at what happened to them in Chechnya!) we can get the whole Pacific coast of Siberia! This just means sailing in to Vladivostok, and setting up a local government friendly to us. We can then move in to exploit the vast riches of the hinterlands. I think the people of the Russian far east are fed up with Moscow-they would probably try to break away on their own. Anyway-it’s going to be up for grabs-why let the japanese have it!
This could be the best deal since ALaska!

I’m sorry LC, but that whole capitalist thing is so Dot-com. What we should be looking at here is taking the place over with some well considered memes.

You Yankee running dog imperialists need to go look at a globe. Siberia is a LONG WAY away from America. To get to Vladivostok, you can fly to Seoul, South Korea, then to Vladivostok. Flight time from Chicago to Seoul nonstop is 14 hours. Then it’s another 2 hours to Vladivostok. And Vladivostok is only the easternmost of Siberia’s big cities. It’s another 4000 miles to Moscow. It’s only about 2700 miles from New York to Los Angeles, and it’s only about 3000 miles from Augusta, Maine to Seattle. Siberia’s a HUGE place, 4,000,000 square miles.

Just pause for a moment and consider the sheer logistics of the thing, the problems of resupplying an army that’s literally on the other side of the world. And whose Asian airfields are you going to use for staging posts while you conquer Siberia? Ulan Bator? Beijing? Tokyo? Seoul? Maybe Manila? I can’t visualize any of those governments simply rolling out the red carpet for the U.S. Air Force and providing coffee and doughnuts for weary fliers.

It would have to be an air war because there aren’t any roads to speak of that cross Siberia, nothing at all like the U.S. Interstate highway system. There’s the Trans-Siberian Railroad and that’s it.

And do you think China’s just going to sit there twiddling her thumbs while Uncle Sam moves into the vacant house next door? Not on your tintype, buster, she’s had her eye on that particular piece of property for a long time.

Last summer I found myself wondering, China vs. Russia–who would win? And would the U.S. step in?

This site is fun–calculate how far various world cities are from Moscow.
http://members.tripod.com/~argun/dis1mosc.htm

Facts about Siberia.

http://www.gorussia.about.com/travel/gorussia/cs/siberia/

When I was first reading this, I was thinking to myself “Why would we want Antartica? And there are no locals there, so what the heck are these people talking about?” Then I realised the topic was Siberia. Oh. oops. My bad, i’m an idiot and all that.

This got me to thinking though, what would we want with Siberia? You’ve never played Risk as a kid, right? (Seven extra guys at the beggining of every turn, but you could never hold onto it). Besides some natural rescources that are hard to get at, and the fact that we’d have a bigger territory to defend what would be the point of Siberia? I’m at a loss here. Can anyone give me some easy, practical reasons for it?

just wondering
broccoli!

Well, couldn’t one go by the Beiring Straight, DDG?

I agree, though, it’s a stupid idea. Do you have any idea what a HASSEL it would be to manage that?