This is my biggest fear. She acts like she’s playing it straight. He’s found guilty and then gives him no prison time. She’s already made clear she doesn’t believe presidents are to be treated like ordinary citizens. Can something be done to rectify or prevent this?
I believe if it can be proven that it was a sham trial than it would not be double jeopardy to hold a real one. What you state runs very close to that.
Someone cited in another thread that while the sentencing guidelines are not mandatory, deviating to something less than the lower end (a downward departure, I believe it was called) requires a rationale and can be appealed without double jeopardy attaching.
If you want more info, we’ll need the much-smarter person who provided the info (can’t recall who) to wander in.
The rational will be “for the good of the country” we cannot lockup a former POTUS without creating a civil war situtation. So I’m wondering, how big of fine could be levyed instead? What sort of deal could be brokered that kept him from public office?
I think it was here that you’re referring.
That would be in line with the treatment of other high officials, who routinely get away with stuff that lower ranked people would have the book thrown at them for doing.
Hillary Clinton got away with numerous violations of document handling without charges. Joe Biden and Mike Pence also got away with a warning.
Sandy Berger went into a secure facility and stuffed documents in his pants that he wanted to destroy. This is worse than anything any of those people have done, because it showed wilful intent to destroy secure documents. He got convicted, but did no time.
In the meantime, there are lower level people in jail for much less.
Convict Trump (if he’s guilty and it sure looks like he is), give him a multi-year sentence and reduce it to house arrest/probation/community service. Make Trump work in a food kitchen 20 hours a week for a couple of years. That would probably be worse than prison for him, and it wouldn’t destroy the country, which throwing a man who almost half the country supports into jail for years for something the opposition did with impugnity multiple times might just do.
Anyway, house arrest and probation would prevent him from running for President, and by the time he’s done with that he’ll be too old to run again. Trump problem solved without having half the country up in arms.
Emphasis added. Who exactly did what Trump did, in terms of severity and scale? This seems patently silly. There’s no analogue for Trump’s alleged offenses unless we use “associated with the same statute” as some sort of great equalizer.
Sentencing below the guidelines and downward departures are related but not necessarily the same thing. A sentence below the sentencing guideline is a variance; a downward departure is a ruling for a change in the guideline range itself. Jeopardy isn’t a consideration at this point regardless, guilt has already been found; the government appealing the sentence would be just that, an appeal that the sentence was insufficient, not a second bite at the apple on the issue of guilt.
INSIGHT: Federal Sentencing—To Vary or Depart From the Guidelines? (bloomberglaw.com)
When discretion is exercised, a deviation can be up or down from the Guideline range: varying or departing. “Variance” and “departure” are terms of art. A variance is a sentence imposed outside the Guidelines based on U.S.C. sentencing factors. A departure is a change from the Guideline range based on a Guideline policy.
Joe Biden has been holding top secret documents in multiple locations for many years against the law. He even tried to claim that keeping a box of them in his garage beside his Corvette (and in plain view when the door was open) was some kind of super-safe storage.
I will concede that Trump may have done worse. One area in which he definitely did worse was refusing to cooperate fully, and apparently they have him on tape asking one of his lawyers to ‘pluck out’ the more incriminating documents before turning them over, which makes him guilty of obstruction as well.
But really… 120 years? While Sandy Berger gets probation and the rest of them don’t even get an indictment? I don’t care how fair you think it is - I imagine most Trump haters are cackling gleefuilly. But I think a ridiculous level of charges like this is more likely to lead to a hung jury, which will cause Trump to declare victory.
There’s a good reason Presidents are treated differently, why Nixon was pardoned, etc. It would be very damaging to the country to lock a president in jail, and it sets a very bad, banana-republic like precedent where future leaders will attempt to win by jailing their opponents. And if people in power know that the next person is likely to go after them legally, they will do everything they can to remain in power. That’s also what low-trust banana republics look like.
20 would be fine.
Repeating again that Joe Biden is not doing this. The law is. And this would be a fantastic precedent. No one is above the law. Sure Biden had some docs, he returned them promptly and fully. Trump showed them to people and tried to hide them. There is absolutely no comparison.
Yes, that one little thing.
Comey stated flat out that Hillary Clinton broke the law egregiously and willfully. He decided not to continue pushing the case because in his opinion no prosecutor would indict her because of who she is.
Some people are very much above the law. So far, Hunter Biden has paid no price for his obvious and repeated violations of drug and gun laws, putting aside his potential political corruption.
Moderating:
Do not turn this thread into a “whatabout” thread. It’s hijacking. Stop now. If you want to have a discussion about Joe Biden’s retention of classified materials, go to or start a different thread.
What? It would be very unusual to charge someone with a drug charge without law enforcement actually seizing and testing the alleged drugs. I haven’t seen any evidence of political corruption. The gun charge is simply not admitting a drug use when he bought a gun. I’ve never heard of anyone being charged for that. (although I’m sure it’s happened somewhere to someone)
ETA:: sorry, just saw the mod note. I’ll stop also
Thank you.
You might mean me, except for the “much-smarter” part (so maybe you didn’t mean me). But I did some Googling and posted what I came up with.
However, none of the real lawyers contradicted me, so I’m guessing i actually got something right. And a real lawyer somewhat backed up at least part of what I posted, and gave some proper information.
I don’t think he will or should get 120 years. I think home confinement may result, and this can definitely be argued as a reasonable compromise—not because he’s a former president per se, but because of the unavoidable logistical difficulties associated with putting him in the slammer (e.g., Secret Service protection).
I realize those difficulties are a direct result of his presidency, but my point is that there should be no “respectful deference” to his former office. The rule of law should rule the day, not the delusions of his cult regarding unequal treatment. If a fair sentence will destroy the country, then we are already destroyed. It should be a purely practical decision.
But again, any assertion that “other guys did the same thing with impunity” is ludicrous. However sloppy and careless Pence, Clinton and Biden may have been, their actions bear no resemblance to the obstructive, deliberate crimes Trump committed that almost certainly compromised our national security.
ETA: Just saw the mod note. Sorry, I’m usually pretty diligent about catching up fully on a thread before I post. Mea culpa.
It’s generally a safe bet for me. 
Jack Smith does have the Bedminster angle in reserve. Some of the crimes were committed there, and those are conspicuously absent from the Miami indictment. And Cannon has no reach in NJ.
Is there anything from Jersey besides the rustling papers recording? He shows and describes to a dinner party what he claims is a classified document, but doesn’t let them get close, right? Is he going to have to claim he was lying to his buddies?
At any rate, I’m baffled that they don’t turn Bedminster upside down. That doc might just be covering up the light on his bedside landline phone.