Who had “less than a week”?
Full headline:
He sold bombs to Israel and allowed them to bomb innocent people in Gaza. He prevented the UN from providing food and medical supplies. He allowed hospitals to be destroyed under the pretense that they’re “Hamas.”
I predict his next step is a big rebuilding plan, paid for largely by the US with money that will be funneled to Trump’s companies. And the new inhabitants will not be the Palestinians whose homes have been destroyed.
The immediate next step is for Israel to use some pretense to start killing again.
But at that time it was what his sycophants came up to please him. By now Og knows what he’s imagining should eventually happen.
And if it all falls apart he’ll insist “ I got peace. YOU weak losers screwed it up.”
So Trump took an old plan, crossed off “Biden” and wrote in “Trump” (in sharpie), and said “Gimme my Nobel Prize!”?
I believe it.
If you ignore the details of the prior plan and current plan, I guess you can squint and pretend that they’re identical.
On the one hand we have the word of an experienced Israeli negotiator literally involved in the peace negotiations. On the other hand, we’ve got…yours.
Really? You have the word of an experienced Israeli negotiator literally involved in the peace negotiations and he said that the Biden plan involved Hamas disarming? Cite?
I have the word of an experienced Israeli negotiator literally involved in the peace negotiations that the two ceasefire agreements are fundamentally the same, and I’ve already offered a cite for that. Were you not capable of reading it?
But please keep dragging those goalposts off to the horizon.
The cite didn’t say that Hamas had agreed to disarm when Biden was president, and since that was the red line that Israel didn’t agree to violate, I don’t see how it’s relevant.
If you keep refusing the food I offer you because I’m offering you breaded pork cutlets, and then I storm off in frustration and someone else comes up to you and offers you breaded chicken cutlets which you accept, I’d be pretty fucking stupid if I whined about how I offered you something that was “fundamentally the same”. Especially if the reason you were refusing the pork cutlets is because you’re a Muslim and consider pork Haram.
The difference between now and then is that then Qatar was telling Hamas “don’t worry, keep holding out, we aren’t going to force you to accept disarmanent”, and now they changed their tune. Whether they changed their tune because they actually intend to force Hamas to accept defeat, or as a play to win favor with Trump, remains to be seen.
Even FoxNews is saying the same thing:
How’s that “red line” looking? Seems like what Hamas agreed to under Biden is the same thing they’ve agreed to so far under Trump.
Are you somehow under the impression that this analogy applies here?
Or they haven’t changed their tune at all.
The red line looks great.
That’s all part of Phase 2. Before, Hamas wouldn’t agree to implement Phase 1 (ceasefire and hostages) without a guarantee that Israel would agree to its part of the second phase (full withdrawal from Gaza) without Hamas agreeing to disarm.
This time around, Israel did not agree to implement any part of Phase 2 until Hamas agrees to disarm, and despite this Hamas did agree to implement Phase 1. That’s great - hostages have been released, aid is coming into Gaza, and the people get a much needed break from serving as Hamas’ human shields.
Phase 2 is still on the table but Hamas has to disarm if they want to implement it. If not, we can go right back to fighting. I suspect that this is precisely Hamas’ plan: to use this as a break to rearm, fight some of their internal opponents, and prepare for another round of fight. That’s fine; Israel is capable of a lot more prep than Hamas is.
The difference is that Biden did not manage to strongarm Hamas into implementing Phase 1 without a guarantee that Israel will violate its red line and allow Hamas to remain armed, but Trump (or more realistically Kushner) did.
Yep! Biden wasn’t able to get Israel to agree to guarantee that they’ll tolerate an armed Hamas in Phase 2; Trump didn’t have to, because he convinced Hamas to implement Phase 1 without a guarantee that Phase 2 will allow them to remain armed.
Qatar hasn’t changed their tune at all? That is incorrect:
So in other words, Hamas didn’t agree to disarmament under Biden and hasn’t agreed to disarmament now, but has agreed to a ceasefire and hostage release as it was willing to do when Biden was president. Exactly like the Israeli negotiator said. And all the rest of this is irrelevant.
What has Hamas agreed to that they hadn’t agreed to before?
Israel got back all the living hostages after only pulling out of half, or a little less, of Gaza:
Here’s what PBS says about the 53 percent:
Do you have a link showing Hamas agreeing “under Biden” to put off Israel leaving most (or any) of Gaza until after the hostage/prisoner exchange? I do not recall that.
P.S. The yellow line map that Hamas was forced by Qatar to agree to (and that did not AFAIK exist during the Biden administration) can be seen in this link, as can mention of the next two agreed withdrawal stages (40 percent, then 15 percent):
Uh, what? No, not at all.
Before they would only agree to implement Phase 1 if Israel guaranteed ahead of time that it would implement its part of Phase 2 without Hamas disarming. Now they agreed to implement Phase 1 and negotiate Phase 2 later.
Releasing the hostages without a guarantee that they’ll be allowed to stay armed.
Before, they would not agree to anything unless part of that agreement was that the war would end with them armed.
Now, they agreed to release the hostages and have a ceasefire without any such guarantee.
I’m really lost as to what is unclear about this.
This claim that the same agreement was available “under Biden” appears to me an evidence-free instant progressive orthodoxy. I can only guess that it feels to some that if you admit that something different was available “under Trump,” you just made an enormous admission that Trump is a Peace-Prize deserving wonderful guy,
In reality, the Middle East does not revolve around who is POTUS. Trump is going to claim credit for any peace move in the world, as illustrated by his statements about having ended eight wars this year.
During the Biden administration, some of the Palestinians released yesterday were not yet held by Israel. This is only a small detail if you are not one of the parties. Circumstances changed, as did terms being discussed, or not discussed.
So, as i see it, Hamas has not agreed to disarm, and Israel has not agreed to pull out of Gaza. What’s new this time is that Hamas was willing to return the remaining hostages in exchange for a partial, and probably temporary, Israeli withdrawal.
And i suspect that’s at least partly because the hostages have become a liability to them. There is a segment of “support for Israel” that’s really about “getting the hostages back”. Without those hostages still in Hamas’ hands, Israel actions against Gaza look less and less justified to many outsiders. (Outsiders who have been supporting Israel.)
Correct.
Also correct. Hamas is, of course, completely in control of whether this withdrawal by Israel will be permanent or temporary.
That was all true on Oct 8. If that was how Hamas thought, they’d have released the hostages immediately.
Hamas agreed to release the hostages because of immense pressure from Qatar and Turkey. The question now is whether Trump has enough international support to implement the next phase of the plan: creating an interim governing board and the ISF and having Israel start handing over control of Gaza to this new body. If he can actually make that happen, it really doesn’t matter if Hamas agrees to disarm or not. Israel can slowly displace Hamas and replace it with the ISF.
The real question is, how on board with are Turkey, Qatar, and Egypt? If they’re actually willing to cut off Hamas and lend manpower to the ISF, then not only could this war finally be over, but this could be the biggest step towards a two state solution that’s happened in my lifetime. If they were willing to play along and pressure Hamas to accept a ceasefire, but no more - then this is sure to drag on.
There is now sporadic fighting between Hamas and non-Hamas Gazan militias.
I followed the link, but I cant find that story.
That’s basically all there was at the time. According to NBC News Radio, IDF issued a Xit claiming responsibility for the deaths of some Palestinians who had violated a … whatever the warfare equivalent is of a restraining order is.
ETA: IDF has also been telling Gaza residents (paraphrased) to stay the hell away from them.
ETATA: here’s an article.