Should we support the mutant registration act?

[foolsguinea]

@SisterCoyote

Until that time, you’re asking to punish a segment of the population - and as high-minded as we would like to think people are, to be “known” as out of the norm is still a punishment - who have done nothing wrong and pose no greater threat to their neighborhood than a handgun in a properly locked gun safe.

So, being black is a punishment?

I thought Sage Rat made a good case from a law-enforcement standpoint. And I like the direction some people seem to be thinking, less toward registration, & more toward intervention.

@flight

I would only support registration, however, when passed with accompanying legal protections for mutants. This should, at the least, make them a protected class. In this way we could protect both society from mutants, and mutants from society.

Fair enough. Except for two classes: the Amahl Farouk/Charles Xavier-level mentalists & certain high-end teleporters. Those guys should just hunted down & neutralized. Of course, first we need a device to screen out the telepathic illusion & control effects, to be able to take out Amahl Farouk, to stop him jumping brains, & to be sure we actually did it. Since Amahl Farouk will just program every brain on Earth to think we have a successful mind-screen device when we don’t, & feed our delusions from there, um… delete this post.

[Mtgman]

@andros

And, back to the law enforcement angle, what was your response to my suggestion that all human traits which would assist criminal activity be registered and used as a law enforcement tool?

Coming soon to a newsroom near you - criminal with photographic memory spies on ATM machines and steals thousands of dollars by using his perfect recall to reproduce PIN numbers!

[sub]In other news, guy with really skinny arms robs vending machine. Footage you’d have to see to believe at 11[/sub]

Enjoy,
Steven

[Scott_Plaid]

@Mtgman

[sub]In other news, guy with really skinny arms robs vending machine. Footage you’d have to see to believe at 11[/sub]

:dubious: That is in no way hard to believe. Why, in an artist’s summer camp, in Salisbury, when I was a teen, I took all the Snickers from an old fashioned vending machine using this technique, and I am base-line human norm.

[SisterCoyote]

@foolsguinea

So, being black is a punishment?

Apologies; I didn’t think that part of my post through thoroughly and am more than willing to retract that statement as being both inaccurate and unnecessarily inflammatory.

[holmes]

Bricker They weren’t born mutants, but have suffered mutations…mutations that have created several other like beings, most of whom witht the exception of Doc Samson, are evil or insane; The Griffin, The Leader…etc. All humans who have become “mutants”, most likely because they have a latent “X” gene or similar variant. Do we register them too?

How latent do I have to be before I have to register? What if ALL humans have the potential to mutate if the conditions are correct? Something to worry about?

[Bricker]

@andros

Sorry, didn’t preview.
Bricker, why does the existence of a test support the need to perform it?

The existence of a test merely proves that we CAN perform it. The desirability of performing it mat be seen above in my posts concerning research, public safety, and law enforcement goals.

And, back to the law enforcement angle, what was your response to my suggestion that all human traits which would assist criminal activity be registered and used as a law enforcement tool?

Too ill-defined a standard. This is a standard we can easily adopt: presence of the X-factor.

[DocCathode]

@Bricker

Yes, and Ted Kazinski blew people up, and John Wayne Gacy killed dozens of chidlren, and Jeffrey Dahmer ate people. What of it? This isn’t intended to stop all crime. You’re offering the fallacy of false analogy.

Nope. You’re putting words in my mouth. Read the last sentence of my post “You say mutants are a threat? Prove it.” My point was not ‘there will still be crime’ but ‘there is insufficient proof that mutants pose a threat and require the money and effort of setting up registration programs, when those resources are needed elsewhere’

Again, you advocate creating the registration program because mutants are a threat. I say there’s exceedingly little evidence that they are a threat. If they are not a threat, why do we need the registration act?

Andros We chatted once or twice. I barely know the man.

[foolsguinea]

@Bricker

No. Law-enforcement only. At time of testing, individuals may be offered specific counseling and guidance. But I don’t propose a follow-up visit to the home of a person who can start fires by some well-meaning social services agency.

[real-world]Hm. In my hometown there was a recent to-do over a cop who used his badge to pull out of class & intimidate a schoolboy who was in some sort of conflict with the cop’s kid.[/real-world]

The temptation to abuse police privilege is always there. Are mutants of lower power level (Thunderbird, Callisto, the Angel) safer with only cops knowing who they are? Depends on your locality, eh?

[Steve_MB]

@Bricker

Guns - the sale of firearms to individuals must be registered. But that has been required for dozens of years without a further step to banning them being taken… In fact, I cannot think of ANY activity that has started out with registration and ultimately been completely banned.

Some counterexamples are listed here. (I’d quote them directly, but the thread-hijack risk is high enough as it is. Given that the gun issue presents the clearest case for the proposition that the slope is, in fact, slippery, that can’t be helped. Just follow the link and page down to “Gun Confiscation in Democratic Societies”. Comment on the specific cases, if you must, on some more relevant thread.)

[Bricker]

@holmes

Bricker They weren’t born mutants, but have suffered mutations…mutations that have created several other like beings, most of whom witht the exception of Doc Samson, are evil or insane; The Griffin, The Leader…etc. All humans who have become “mutants”, most likely because they have a latent “X” gene or similar variant. Do we register them too?

How latent do I have to be before I have to register? What if ALL humans have the potential to mutate if the conditions are correct? Something to worry about?

My entire support for this proposal is based on the assumption that:
[ul]
[li]There is a definable, quantifiable, measurable “X-factor,”[/li][li]The presence of this “X-factor” reliably may be correlated to the presence of hitherto unknown powers and abilities, ranging from trivial to extraordinary,[/li][li]This is well-known and accepted by the world’s scientific community,[/li][li]The Act proposed would merely register and offer assistance and counseling[/li][/ul]

If, as you suggest, mutancy is more ill-defined than that, then my position would change.

[DrDeth]

@Muad'Dib

All ready passed in the congress, the Mutant Registration Act is now up for debate in the senate.

As many of you know the country is quite polarized on the issue with many leftist groups comparing it to the forced registration of Jews in Hitler’s Germany, while many on the right claiming it is necessary for our safety.

There was a story in the paper the other day of a girl in New Orleans that was randomly absorbing the “life force” of those around her. The poor thing did not even know what was going on herself, but in the end thirteen people are in the hospital, four in deep comas. Luckily the girl was safely apprehended and is now in a controlled safe environment.
.

1. Cite?

2. Cite?

3 Cite?

Can Batman beat Superman? :rolleyes:

[foolsguinea]

Well, you know, the question is whether you have an active metagene.

The thing is, I think this debate is worthwhile without all the temporally specific limitations. So if I refer to something that hasn’t happened yet, um, it’s my mutant power?

[Steve_MB]

@Bricker

1. It’s a source available to law enforcement.
   Under normal circumstances, if a bank opens its vault Monday morning and the contents are missing, with nothing but a slippery slime left behind, police would begin suspecting an inside job. If they have a database that notes that someone living in the area has the ability to move through walls holding objects, but he leaves behind a slippery slime when he does, that’s at least a reason to talk to the guy. If a woman reports that she’s been molested by a guy who vanished in a puff of purple smoke, police might be tempted to send her for a psych evaluation… but perhaps the database lists someone in the area that can apport, leaving behind a puff of purple smoke. These are valuable pieces of data for law enforcement to possess.

In order to give any advantage (over and above the basic knowledge that, yep, there are people out there who can do this sort of thing), a registry would require considerable detail about individual ability. How, exactly, do you get that from individuals who may be unable (especially if the registry is compiled from early-life genetic screens) or unwilling to provide it?

2. It’s a source for research and data-gathering
   While it seems clear that we are not able to pinpoint a specific reason for the presence of the “X-factor,” research efforts might well be aided by showing regions that have higher orr lower concentrations of mutants, or specific powers/abilities that appear in certain regions. Like census data, the individual data will be kept private, but in the aggregate, it can be used by researchers to gain valuable insight into the phenomenon.

To all indications, the percentage of such individuals in the total population is too low to make such “aggregation” meaningful – either the total number in a sample area is too small to really mask individual data, or the sample area is too large to be meaningful.

3. It provides an aid for public safety
   Mutants with dangerous abilities can be offered counseling, training, and assistance to ensure that they do not inadvertantly injure or kill.

See comment on Item 1.

[andros]

@DrDeth

1. Cite?

2. Cite?

3 Cite?

Can Batman beat Superman? :rolleyes:

You’re cute. Can we keep you?

[Bricker]

@Steve MB

In order to give any advantage (over and above the basic knowledge that, yep, there are people out there who can do this sort of thing), a registry would require considerable detail about individual ability. How, exactly, do you get that from individuals who may be unable (especially if the registry is compiled from early-life genetic screens) or unwilling to provide it?

What “considerable detail?” Three sentences describing the power is plenty.

You get the data by asking. If the individual is unwilling to provide it, then we don’t include it. That’s simple.

To all indications, the percentage of such individuals in the total population is too low to make such “aggregation” meaningful – either the total number in a sample area is too small to really mask individual data, or the sample area is too large to be meaningful.

I don’t know enough about the incidence of mutants to agree or disagree with this.

[andros]

@Bricker

You get the data by asking. If the individual is unwilling to provide it, then we don’t include it. That’s simple.

Whoa up there, Hoss.

Now we’re talking about fully voluntary registration? That I’ll get behind.

But that ain’t what the good Senator wants.

[DocCathode]

[QUOTE=Bricker]
My entire support for this proposal is based on the assumption that:
[list]
[li]There is a definable, quantifiable, measurable “X-factor,”[/li][/QUOTE]

Unquestionably true. Scientific fact.

[QUOTE]
[li]The presence of this “X-factor” reliably may be correlated to the presence of hitherto unknown powers and abilities, ranging from trivial to extraordinary,[/li][/QUOTE]

Every person born with the X factor will develop an ability beyond the norm for homo sapiens at some point in their lives. These abilities generally manifest during puberty.

But, not every person with extraordinary abilities was born with an X Factor. Dr Banner was caught at ground zero for a prototype gamma bomb. His change is unstable. The short version is-Rage changes him into a massive green man known as the Hulk. The Hulk is unbelievably strong (there is evidence he can lift over 100 tons), very dificult to injure, and heals at an incredibly accelerated rate. But no test of Dr Banner would reveal an X Factor.

Michael Morbius was a briliant researcher (came this close to a Nobel) specializing in diseases of the blood. He was also trying to find a cure for his own rare blood disease. He attempted to cure himself with an serum utilizing, among other things, genes from a vampire bat. The media called him “The Living Vampire” red eyes, chalk white skin, an emaciated body. superhuman strength, heightened senses, a telekinetic ability allowing him to fly. But the serum made UV rays deadly to him. It also took away his mind and replaced it with a hunger for human blood of his own rare type. Morbius was eventually cured. A jury found him not guilty by reason of insanity. Michael Morbius has no X Factor.

Otto Octavius worked for the US government. His ideas and experiments in radioactivity were ahead of their time. He developed 4 mechanical arms to allow him to manipulate volatile substances at a distance. An experiment went wrong, and would have killed Octavius if not for a safety shield. Octavius had been a good man, working to aid his country and improve the lot of his fellow man. When he woke from the explosion, Octavius was insane (probably paranoid schizophrenia). He wanted his mechanical arms. They broke out of the lab and came to him. Octavius (often called Doctor Octopus) has a psychic link to the arms. He can sense them at a distance and control them with his mind alone. Octavius has no X Factor.

Seeing somebody exhibit a superhuman ability is not proof of an X Factor. The celebrity superhumans “The Fantastic Four” all have superhuman abilities, but none has an X Factor.

[VarlosZ]

@DocCathode

Again, you advocate creating the registration program because mutants are a threat. I say there’s exceedingly little evidence that they are a threat. If they are not a threat, why do we need the registration act?

I registered my disapproval of the MRA back on page two, but this, I think, is a weak argument. Little evidence? One mutant has been using her ability to impersonate anyone to infiltrate the highest levels of government. Another used his teleportation powers – against which we have virtually no defence – to gain entrance to the Oval Office and attack the President. Etc., etc.

Even absent any evidence, it is obvious on its face that mutant powers pose a threat (unless these powers are universally tied to a benevolence gene, which they clearly are not). Guns in homes and on the market, mixed with fallible and occasionally nefarious humans, pose an obvious threat, hence we have a real interest in registering and tracking them. The same can be said for mutant powers, in some cases many times over. The question of whether that interest is outweighed by other concerns is the real matter for debate.

[Scott_Plaid]

@VarlosZ

I registered my disapproval of the MRA back on page two, but this, I think, is a weak argument. Little evidence? One mutant has been using her ability to impersonate anyone to infiltrate the highest levels of government. Another used his teleportation powers – against which we have virtually no defence – to gain entrance to the Oval Office and attack the President. Etc., etc.

What! I have never heard of this in my entire life. Where did you hear such rot?

::Hippie Voice:: The general public would not know about these sort of thing. Don’t kill the rhthum, dude.

[DocCathode]

@Bricker

What “considerable detail?” Three sentences describing the power is plenty.

As a scientist I disagree. Let’s take as an example Charlie, from Stephen King’s Firestarter.

We could just say “pyrokinesis”. But, that is insufficient detail. What is the greatest distance at which she can mentally heat/ignite objects? What is the hottest she can make them? How fast can she heat them from room temperature to her maximum? How many fires can she control at once? She demonstrated some immunity to heat. How far does this go? From observed evidence, she would be unharmed by the heat inside a burning house. Could she swim in safety in magma?

We need details. Increased strength, senses etc must be tested. Limits must be known.

Re Incidence Of Mutants

I can’t find my copy of X at the moment. But Xavier has said repeatedly in reports and in interviews that the incidence of mutants is increasing.