Should Western Nations halt immigration from Syrian Refugees?

[Broomstick]

@Hyperelastic

There’s lots of open space in rich ME oil sheikdoms. When those countries have taken in their fill of their co-religionists, then maybe we can think about accepting our share.

A lot of that “empty space” is barren desert, like the famous “Empty Quarter”. You can put people there but they can’t live there without being provided food, water, and shelter. You can’t farm there. Everything has to be brought in. You might as well argue for settling them in Antarctica.

As for “taken in their fill” - smaller and less wealthy nations like Lebannon and Jordan already have done so - if I recall correctly, in Lebannon now one person in six is a Syrian refugee. One person in six. The would be the equivalent of the US taking in 50 million people (which is more than twice the entire population of Syria). How many more people do you think such nations can take?

Again with the assumptions - people assume that ME nations aren’t taking people in. They are (except for Saudi Arabia - although they’ve taken a few it’s far, far fewer than anyone else). They assume they refugees aren’t being vetted. These assumptions are based on ignorance and lies.

[Oddball_92]

@Little_Nemo

Some questions for those who want to halt the flow of Syrian refugees.

Suppose it was the nineteen-thirties. What would be your policy towards Jewish refugees fleeing Germany?

Would you say they should stay in Germany and accept whatever the Nazis do to them? Would you say they’re only using Nazi persecution as an excuse to come to America for jobs? Would you say other countries should take them? Would you turn away Jewish refugees because some of them might be secret Nazi agents sneaking in among the crowd? Would you say that we’re a Christian nation and non-Christians won’t fit in? Would you say that Jews and Nazis are all Germans, so why should we distinguish between them?

This is no comparison at all. Jewish people have not declared jihad against all who are not Jew. Jewish do not wish to kill non-jews. Jews have not and did not commit terrorist acts against the very country that want to come to.

[Hyperelastic]

@Little_Nemo

Some questions for those who want to halt the flow of Syrian refugees.

Suppose it was the nineteen-thirties. What would be your policy towards Jewish refugees fleeing Germany?

Would you say they should stay in Germany and accept whatever the Nazis do to them? Would you say they’re only using Nazi persecution as an excuse to come to America for jobs? Would you say other countries should take them? Would you turn away Jewish refugees because some of them might be secret Nazi agents sneaking in among the crowd? Would you say that we’re a Christian nation and non-Christians won’t fit in? Would you say that Jews and Nazis are all Germans, so why should we distinguish between them?

It’s obvious in hindsight that we should have taken more Jews.

But there are two major differences. First, there was very little Jewish terrorism in 1938.

Second, in 1938 the US govt did not yet have a history of repeatedly abusing immigration laws to protect people who don’t need to be protected. For example, illegal El Salvadoran immigrants have been “temporarily” protected from deportation for the last 17 years because of Hurricane Mitch, which happened in 1998! Now legitimate refugees are going to pay the price for the US government’s total lack of credibility when it comes to immigration.

[even_sven]

@Oddball_92

This is no comparison at all. Jewish people have not declared jihad against all who are not Jew. Jewish do not wish to kill non-jews. Jews have not and did not commit terrorist acts against the very country that want to come to.

Neither did Syrian refugees.

Every immigrant group has some good argument against them. And that goes double for refugees, who by definition have been in proximity to bad stuff.

[Kobal2]

@Oddball_92

Jews have not and did not commit terrorist acts against the very country that want to come to.

Funny you should say that. Cause you’re wrong.
(and of course, as I already said, back then Jews were accused of being the masterminds behind the Russian revolution and/or affiliated with every socialist and anarchist movement ever ; some of which were quite violent. Including in the US)

Also what even sven said.

[Peremensoe]

@Oddball_92

Jewish people have not declared jihad against all who are not Jew. Jewish do not wish to kill non-jews. Jews have not and did not commit terrorist acts against the very country that want to come to.

Nor do Syrian refugees.

There may be exceptions; there have been Jewish exceptions also.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Hyperelastic

First, there was very little Jewish terrorism in 1938.

… seriously?

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

I was explaining the vetting process to a friend-of-friend on Facebook last night, and she said “obviously it’s not good enough.” So I asked her how that was obvious, and she said “look what happened in France!” It took a good three or four additional posts before she understood that the US State Department does not vet refugees admitted to France. And then like a dozen to explain that none of the French terrorists were actually refugees.

[GIGObuster]

@Hyperelastic

Second, in 1938 the US govt did not yet have a history of repeatedly abusing immigration laws to protect people who don’t need to be protected. For example, illegal El Salvadoran immigrants have been “temporarily” protected from deportation for the last 17 years because of Hurricane Mitch, which happened in 1998! Now legitimate refugees are going to pay the price for the US government’s total lack of credibility when it comes to immigration.

Unrest and economic hardship is still happening in El Salvador. The problem I see there is that deporting that many now is bound to cause even more unrest. Incidentally it is wrong to claim that Hurricane Mitch is the reason now; Severe earthquakes, and as mentioned, currently being unable to handle a return of so many now are the reasons.

https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2015/01/07/2015-00031/extension-of-the-designation-of-el-salvador-for-temporary-protected-status

The Secretary has determined that an extension is warranted because the conditions in El Salvador that prompted the TPS designation continue to be met. There continues to be a substantial, but temporary, disruption of living conditions in El Salvador resulting from a series of earthquakes in 2001, and El Salvador remains unable, temporarily, to handle adequately the return of its nationals.

It seems to me that it is less credible for your sources to accuse the government of abusing the immigration rules when they themselves are abusing of your trust.

[Hyperelastic]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

… seriously?

It was not directed at the US

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

Perhaps you can show me an example of a Syrian refugee who engaged in US-directed terrorism, then.

[up_the_junction]

I heard one refugee threw a carrot at a US charity rep in a border camp.

[Hyperelastic]

@GIGObuster

Unrest and economic hardship is still happening in El Salvador. The problem I see there is that deporting that many now is bound to cause even more unrest. Incidentally it is wrong to claim that Hurricane Mitch is the reason now; Severe earthquakes, and as mentioned, currently being unable to handle a return of so many now are the reasons.

Federal Register :: Extension of the Designation of El Salvador for Temporary Protected Status
It seems to me that it is less credible for your sources to accuse the government of abusing the immigration rules when they themselves are abusing of your trust.

I look at the facts and draw my own conclusions. TPS is political. You can always come up with an excuse not to deport someone. When that reason keeps changing, it’s a good indication that the original reason was BS as well.

[GIGObuster]

@Hyperelastic

I look at the facts and draw my own conclusions. TPS is political. You can always come up with an excuse not to deport someone. When that reason keeps changing, it’s a good indication that the original reason was BS as well.

Well, the problem is that someone did give you the wrong facts to come to that conclusion, maybe it is just me but what I do is to remove the sources that are giving me misleading info from my bookmarks at least.

[Hyperelastic]

@Little_Nemo

Some questions for those who want to halt the flow of Syrian refugees.

Suppose it was the nineteen-thirties. What would be your policy towards Jewish refugees fleeing Germany?

Would you say they should stay in Germany and accept whatever the Nazis do to them? Would you say they’re only using Nazi persecution as an excuse to come to America for jobs? Would you say other countries should take them? Would you turn away Jewish refugees because some of them might be secret Nazi agents sneaking in among the crowd? Would you say that we’re a Christian nation and non-Christians won’t fit in? Would you say that Jews and Nazis are all Germans, so why should we distinguish between them?

I would add that this analogy is especially ironic given that Israel will not admit any Syrians at all. I believe this applies even to those with Israeli spouses.

[Nema98]

Hell no, we need to be taking more. All countries should be taking more refugees, not one country taking the entire burden. We need more welcome centers and registering them and having info on them. we should make safer for them, allow them to fly here . Therefore you get to know who is coming, it’s safer for refugees and takes away from human traffickers a big incentive to make themselves rich.
Saying we will keep them out is foolish for they will come in anyway and it’s more perilous of a journey. Sure it make right wing governments look tough but really it’s useless.

Oh and not to mention it’s just the right thing to do morally. Besides Syrians we should also take in Iraqis, we screwed up their nation.

Good article below highlighting my points.

What Libya can teach Europe about refugees – DW – 11/11/2015

And as others pointed out terrorists find it easier to recruit plenty of nationals rather then transport refugees. That would be impractical and unlikely. Not impossible but unlikely, especially carrying bombs and other materials. Makes no sense.

[Nema98]

@up_the_junction

They’re Syrian refugees fleeing a war zone. Assad and his barrel bombs have been the leading reason for over a year. Plus, many have been in camps for 2-3 years and see no future there either.

So no, most are not fleeing ISIS

Thank you thank you thank you. :D:D

[Oddball_92]

@Peremensoe

Nor do Syrian refugees.

.

They haven’t had the opportunity yet. Now that we’re bussing them over here, they will better be in a position to do so

[Oddball_92]

@Kobal2

Funny you should say that. Cause you’re wrong.
(and of course, as I already said, back then Jews were accused of being the masterminds behind the Russian revolution and/or affiliated with every socialist and anarchist movement ever ; some of which were quite violent. Including in the US)

Also what even sven said.

Disbanded in 1948… hardly the same thing as now. It was not directed against the US. I don’t care about the Russian revolution. I care about the US. Now.

[Oddball_92]

@Oddball_92

They haven’t had the opportunity yet. Now that we’re bussing them over here, they will better be in a position to do so

And…there is no possible way the US can do thorough background checks on 10000 people. No way. It would take years. Our government isn’t competent enough.