You’re perfectly willing to trade American lives when it’s sending soldiers off to yet another war in the Middle East, so let’s not pretend this is about that. This is about you being a snivelling coward. Like all the right-wing talking heads, you don’t care how many innocents suffer from the policies you advocate as long as you can feel safe. Never mind that these policies don’t work, and that they won’t actually keep you safe; as long as you can hurt someone and then put the blame on someone else when it all goes wrong you don’t give a damn. Because you’re afraid, and that trumps everything.
I live in London these days. I travel on public transport, work in the financial district, and in general spend a lot of time in areas that are prime targets for terrorist attack. My family lives in America and I fly frequently back and forth to visit them. I rode the Tube the morning of the 7/7 attacks, and indeed I was here back when the IRA were still setting off bombs (one of which went off across the street from my current location). I know the risks and I also know that punishing millions for the sins of a few is a price too high to pay, even if the few one day kill me. Perhaps you should put your own life up against your principles rather than those of American soldiers and war refugees - assuming you have any principles, that is.
So don’t you fucking lecture me about “trading American lives”, you pathetic worm; your way involves far more death and suffering than mine, and for far, far less benefit.
The American Right wants Empire, and they sell Xenophobia.
So what we end up with is Americans who think we should be attacking and invading every little shithole in the world - while at the same time they preach hatred of all of those nations. And since they refuse to pay for any of this, what we’ll end up with is an isolated, hated and bankrupt America.
Compassion is weakness.
Helping others is stealing from ourselves.
And somehow none of this is incompatible with Jesus, even though it’s pretty much the polar opposite of everything he taught.
I don’t dislike adaher – he’s generally good natured and honest in his wrongness. But boy is he a coward sometimes. Shame on you, adaher, for reacting in fear, and for being willing to shift any risk you believe Americans are in to service men and women.
I should add that I don’t think I’m being “brave” by going about my daily business - I don’t mean to give that impression. Odds of being in a terrorist attack remain miniscule. But neither am I willing to sell out basic human rights and decency to chip a few thousandths of a percent off those odds.
Non-Muslims and non-Arabs in my area kill far more people every year than Arab Muslims do, I don’t see where taking in several thousand people fleeing war is going to change that much. Sure, there could be a Bad Guy in the lot. There could be a non-refugee Bad Guy moving in next door to me tomorrow, too, and in fact the latter is more likely.
I refuse to play into the hands of bigots and assholes by acquiring bigotry myself.
Conservatives are conservative, in part, because they are biologically disposed to be more fearful. So in that sense, what do you expect from a pig but a grunt?
We’ve had discussions in the past about the definition of “chickenhawk”, but I’ll stick with mine: It’s someone who calls for others to risk their lives for a cause for which he would not be willing to risk his own.
The refugees we’re discussing are not ISIL; they’re fleeing *from *ISIL - and chickenhawks like adaher, and the party to whom his loyalty is absolute, want to turn them away instead of helping. The danger is from a virulent strain of religious zealotry born of endemic poverty, not from a nationality or ethnicity. But wallowing in bigotry avoids the difficulty of thought and doubt and human compassion, doesn’t it?
I respect your beliefs, I really do. But with beliefs comes responsibility to own the consequences of those beliefs. I accept that my position on the Syrian refugees involves discrimination against people for their nationality. I justify this by the fact that we are under zero obligation to help people outside our country. We have always been selective about that and liberals support that selectivity as much as conservatives.
What deserves a pitting is refusal to take responsibility for the consequences of what you advocate. I accept that what I support, and what I bet the vast majority of Americans support, is discrimination. When you accept that your position puts us in danger, then I’ll acknowledge you as a fellow adult.
“No! We have to do the right thing, it’s the moral thing to do, but it’s still not our fault if something goes terribly wrong because our intentions were pure!” is childlike thinking.
The answer is clearly shock collars on all immigrants. You could have pretty pink ones for the females, Disney prints for the children, Justin Bieber prints for the tweeners, etc. Everyone would love this and it’d only cost 19.95 USD per immigrant. Nothing too strong, say 50 volts and 2000 amps would work.
How old are you, adaher? Did you demand the repatriation of Cuban refugees because some of them were undoubtedly Soviet agents? If you weren’t there, would you have demanded it back then?
You have no way of knowing that. You may be right 99.99% of the time, but you have to admit, it’s a great way for ISIS to establish themselves in sleeper cells worldwide.
Soviet agents didn’t pose a risk? The Soviet Union was an existential threat to the United States. We still ask immigrants if they have ever been members of a communist party. In real terms, ISIL is no more dangerous to us than the Crips.
Because you’re immature. Adults understand that they can be right, but unfortunate problems still arise from their choices.
Reminds me of the general immaturity of critics of US foreign policy. “We supported the mujahadeen! This was our fault!” Um, and we, um, WEREN’T supposed to support the mujahadeen? It’s not as if policymakers here didn’t understand the risks, it’s why we gave them Stinger missiles that couldn’t be used after a certain period of time. We had ADULTS in charge who took calculated risks and accepted that things could go wrong.
What I see here are mostly children who moralize and act as if doing right always leads to right, and if it leads to wrong it’s not their responsibility because they did what was right.