I actually used to have an old Goldwater campaign button that had this chemical formula on it.
Stranger
At least the man has some substance to argue about.
I was thinking about this upcoming debate while out mowing the lawn. In college I was on the debate team, and in the 20 years since I’ve presented many an appellate argument in court. The overwhelming majority of the time I have been extremely prepared - very knowledgeable of the matters being addressed. On the few instances where I essentially winged it, I basically didn’t care about the argument or the outcome for one reason or another.
I was thinking, given Palin’s performance in these interviews, I’ve gotta think she should be scared shitless about this upcoming debate. This is going to be a MAJORLY stressful event, difficult even for competent and prepared folk to excel at. Many a time I have stood before a panel of judges KNOWING I was prepared for anything they threw at me, yet nevertheless feeling my knees quivering. That kind of nerves is IMO difficult to avoid in a high stakes “performance” such as this.
And in Court I learned a long time ago that it is preferable to say “I don’t know” than to try to BS a judge while avoiding his question. Don’t think that is an option in these debates.
The only reason she oughtn’t be terrified about this upcoming debate is if she either doesn’t give a shit or is dumb as a rock.
I guess Matt Damon said Pailn is like a bad Disney movie. Here is the comedy trailer for that movie…
I’m honestly torn about this now, after having seen clips of her previous debates. I really think it could go either way:
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She could be playing dumb in the Couric interviews, deliberately lowering expectations, then step up and hit a home run.
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or she could be as dim as she seems to be. To be fair, “dim” isn’t correct, and I’ve used the term “willingly ignorant” before in describing her. She seems to be intellectually incurious, which I for one don’t want in a government official.
The real question is, how much weight will the Veep debate give to either campaign?
I’m really looking forward to watching this tonight.
Sam, a number of us in this have expressed interest in seeing these interviews. Can you hook us up with links to things that show what you’re talking about?
There is now images of Palin getting off the plane on her way to the debate. Notice her 9 year old daughter is in front, Palin is walking behind her holding the Down’s infant, with her hair undone. The rest of her family is behind her.
Could this be an orchestrated scene in order to implant an image of Palin as vulnerable mother of 5, instead of the Republican VP candidate.
If it is, it’s probably working as there’s definitely lowered expectations of her performance during this debate.
Of course, Biden is a lawyer.
You say that like it’s a bad thing - or that it somehow justifies Palin’s apathy and ignorance.
Thanks. I’ll have to decompress from the debate first, but I’m looking forward to checking those out.
She didn’t look like a fucking moron in the debate, so the Republicans will be back to singing her praises. I think she just wiped out the Couric debacle and gave McCain a boost. Crap.
No boost. She just stopped (and possibly slightly reversed) the Palin-based hemmoraging. But her job was to rev up the base, not to persuade independents. She didn’t make a single substantive point. She frequently deflected questions altogether. But she didn’t spontaneously combust; she was fluent, and she only had one or two sentences that were moderately incoherent, although she once again attributed man to global warming rather than the reverse. 
I suppose, taking a very long view, that is arguable…
The debate went pretty much as I expected it would. Palin ‘exceeded expections’, but only because the bar was ridiculously low for her. Biden won on substance in a wonkish way. Palin may have won on emotional appeal, depending on the audience.
A few observations:
[ul]
[li] Palin has an annoying way of speaking gibberish when she’s stuck for an answer. She did it tonight - it’s boilerplate glurg that she can say while her mind is frantically working out an answer. “In regards to that energy policy, our country needs that energy to feed our hungry markets. That energy, which we must have, is what we need. In the markets for energy, domestic supplies will help us with that energy.”[/li]
She doesn’t do this all the time. It’s not fair to say she gave no coherent or straight answers. Like Biden, she dodged quite a few and answered the question she wanted to answer instead of what was asked, or went off on some other tangent. But also like Biden, there were a few where she gave a straight answer. But unlike Biden, she doesn’t know how to smoothly move off topic when she’s lost track of her thoughts. She just goes into gibberish mode.
[li]Biden was very good. He didn’t make any gaffes, had a few touching moments, but most importantly for perception, he came across as actually liking Palin. The shared laughter moment regarding their mutual gaffes about the vice presidency seemed very natural, as did the smiles he gave her a couple of times when she said something he agreed with or when she gave him a compliment. This is very much a win for Joe Biden.[/li][li]Palin’s demeanor is very polarizing. There are some people who will find her very engaging - they just love her. And there are others who’s skin crawls with every word she utters or wink she gives. It’s hard to even say where the dividing line is. I think it’s more a personality thing even than a political thing. I’m right on that line for some reason. My brain switches modes where I think she’s very effective one minute and then I’m seriously annoyed the next.[/li][li] Palin scored a victory - for her own image. I think she has saved herself from being permanently damaged by being labelled as a stupid woman in over her head. She’s probably going to be able to go back to Alaska with her head held high and without people thinking she was a disaster at the national level. She may have bought herself an appearance in 2012, by which time hopefully she’ll be much better schooled in wider issues and she’ll have four more years of governing experience and be in her 50’s. But head back to Alaska she will, because although she scored a personal victory, she didn’t do enough to halt McCain’s slide in the polls, and that’s all that really matters.[/li][li]Finally, Biden wins on points. I’d call it a win on substance, although I disagree with his policies. He justified his own policies better, and Palin failed to take advantage of about a dozen gaping holes he left in his arguments - probably because she doesn’t know the issues well enough to understand where he’s vulnerable. [/li][/ul]
Frankly, I was hoping for a more entertaining debate. Both of them had the potential to make the night memorable. But in the end, it was a pretty boring affair.
Apropos of nothing much, but, the audience evidently matters amazingly much. From Little Green Footballs today:
Wow.
I’ll admit that I haven’t decided who I’m voting for yet, and I like McCain on some issues and Obama on others… but fuuuuuuuck, I can’t even imagine anybody thinking that Palin not only had a command of the facts but that she clearly ‘won’ the debate.
I guess I’m used to GD style debates and others… aren’t.
Did anyone see that Couric clip where Sarah sort of endorsed Hamas? In her defense, she did it unwittingly, only because she obviously had no idea who they were.
What’s equally cosmically comic is that the other side just doesn’t get it as to what there is about a person like Palin that excites that base of voters; it isn’t just a shallow effort to counter based on identity politics (of course that’s part of the benefit, as is Obama’s complexion for parts of his constituency); it’s a sense of small town decency and folksiness that makes the group often termed ‘liberal elites’ roll their eyes.
And the feeling, I’m sure, is mutually contemptuous in both directions.
Half the electorate is on their side. Half isn’t. It’s not as simple as is often implied, suggesting ‘the electorate’ consists only of Democrats and smug Starbucks pinheads.
By the way, Obama for his part has a folksiness to him as well to an extent that is part of his appeal and is equally effective when he’s choosing to play up his rural style (as opposed to when he’s donning his ‘black’ style, level-headed style, etc.; the man is about nothing but styles and sizzle)
I don’t think any candidate on either side would survive a GD style debate. LOL There aren’t ever enough follow-ups by moderators or interviewers for them to compare.
Agreed. All she had to do was not completely fumble the ball. She scored, parried, dodged, responded, had sincere moments and blah blah moments (like any politician) and overall she was herself. Sincerity and freshness compared to Biden’s statesmanlike mastery of details and experience. I’d say that’s a draw nowadays. Obama proved that. It was like she was playing the role of Obama in the primaries facing Hillary, played by Biden this time.
Obama’s policies and ideas have literally unfolded before the country’s eyes as he’s matured and morphed his positions and ‘clarified’ things he originally said that were naive – like meeting unconditionally which he’s now re-explained and contorted into complete unrecognizability from what he originally said off the cuff – and Palin may do the same in the next couple years if she gets in; but from the other ideological side of course.
IMO, she did reasonably well. By that I mean it was obvious she didn’t screw up compared to the Couric interviews, but man, she annoyed the hell out of me.
I didn’t like the winks, nose scrunching, and other facial tics that were supposed to be cute. I don’t want a VP who acts like she’s sittin’ with ya at the hair stylist, gossipin’ about who did what with who. You betcha that’s not gonna play well when she sits down with Pootin to talk about, ya know, stuff.
And what in the hell was that about expanding the VP’s powers?! Does she want to change the title of the office from Vice President to Co-President?! Holy crap, she essentially said she wants to go farther than Cheney!
I nearly wrote in here yesterday that she’d stick to the talking points, and I’m not surprised she did. She sure showed that she’s the foremost energy expert in the country, didn’t she?
And I also didn’t like she repeated her idea that it doesn’t matter what’s causing climate change, but dagnabit, we need to do something about it! I think Biden picked up on that beautifully when he said (paraphrasing), “We can’t solve a problem if we don’t know what caused it.”
I’d like more specifics on how they’re going to clean up Wall Street, and get rid of the corruption. More deregulation?
I’m now energized more than before, and it’s not because I’m a member of the republican base (because for one thing, I’m not). But IMO, it’s looking better and better for Obama & Co.