The flag is a decorated piece of fabric that says nothing about what this country should stand for. Either a communist or a fascist government could still fly the flag unchanged. Not so the constitution. When school kids are taught to pledge allegiance to the flag, they are being conditioned to subject themselves to whoever happens to be in control of the flag at any particular time, whatever the ideology of said flag-controller is. Shouldn’t we be pledging allegiance to the constitution instead? That would be a lot more meaningful and more “american” than pledging to the flag.
You should pledge alleigence to your fellow citizens.
I don’t think so. The constitution outlines what powers we, the people, grant to our government and lists the constraints that we place upon it. A citizen, acting as a citizen, can’t violate the constitution-- only the government can. It is appropriate for our elected officials to pledge to uphold the constitution, but we really can’t do that ourselves.
Now, whether we should pledge allegiance to the flag is another matter. The flag is a symbol of the country, and it doesn’t seem out of line for us, as citizens, to pledge allegiance to it. If we so choose, that is. No private citizen should be be forced to do so, and the SCOTUS has upheld that position.
Pledging to the flag is, I think, originally a relic of a much more fascist and statist past than now makes sense in both the modern world and in an America with a much fuller understanding of what it really means to be a liberal democracy. But it has also become just a tradition, and people will defend tradition for traditions sake without having any particular grander rationale (or sometimes having one that basically attacks all those who see the tradition differently as being unpatriotic or what have you).
I think it’s also somewhat generational.
Don’t you also pledge to the Republic for which the flag stands? Since the republic is defined by its people and constitution/laws, you seem to be okay.
Yep, although technically both.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the US of A.
And to the Republic for which it stands…
Your pledge is to the country. The flag is the visible symbol of the country. Each day, your pledge is made to that visible symbol, symbolic of your pledge to the country itself.
You can’t pledge to the constitution as easily, because it isn’t as easily displayed, nor is it a symbol.
Don’t know about you; however, when I affirmed my reenlistment oath, I promised “to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
True, and that’s why I said “technically”-- because if you read the pledge, it says we pledge to the flag and the country. Strange wording since we only pledge to the flag inasmuch as it represents the country.
And, as I said above, the constitution isn’t about what the citizens should or should not do but what the government can and cannot do. A pledge to the constitution by the citizens, as citizens, would be rather meaningless. Wouldn’t it?
:rolleyes: Of course an Israeli would say that.
I would pledge allegiance to the land, or nothing. Persons come & go, but the ecological substrate allows us to exist.
Don’t forget the kids. The flag has a lot more meaning to a 5 year old than the piece of paper with characters on it that you can’t see because it is so far away.
Well you might as well pledge allegience to the sun as well.
Gah? Where’s that coming from?
Unfortunately, “ecological substrate” doesn’t scan very well. Besides, nature is full of things that can kill you, given half a chance, while the pledge at least claims to be striving for liberty and justice for all.
Personally, I’m glad an equivalent ritual wasn’t pushed at my schools, though I have a vague recollection of mumbling along to something I later guessed was the Lord’s Prayer, circa 1975 or so.
We did the Lord’s Prayer in class in Saskatchewan up to at least 1983 or so. Though that may have been the purview of one particular teacher and not a province wide decision.
As noted above, the Pledge of Allegiance includes reference to the “republic for which [the flag] stands,” the basic law of which is the Constitution. All American public officials of all branches, whether Federal, state or local, are required to be “bound by oath or affirmation… to support this Constitution…” Art. VI, Sec. 3. Although I say the POA pretty often (mostly at Cub Scout meetings), I swore an oath to the U.S. and Ohio constitutions both as a lawyer and later as a magistrate, and those carry a lot more weight for me.
Dagnabbit. Won’t that lead to folks burning the Constitution? I mean, just like they burn the flag now? :dubious:
Carl Sagan talks about this in the last chapter of The Demon Haunted World titled, IIRC, Real Patriots Ask Questions. I agree that we should not be pledging our allegiance to a piece of fabric.
I have no idea what that means.
I too, find this statement odd. Why the rolleyes? Why jump on the nationality of the poster?
Eh, shaddup, Ohio-boy.
