Simple electric stove question.

Factual Questions
1

I recently replaced a non-working element on an electric stove. It hasn’t worked since I’ve lived in this house. Now it works great, except…

…if you adjust the temperature of that element while touching a metal pot (or whisk in the pot, etc) on it, you get a bit of a shock.

I don’t remember seeing any ground leads while I was in there. Should there be any?

One thing that stands out is that the knob associated with that element doesn’t match the others on the stove. It’s made of conducting material, while the others are insulating. My initial impulse is just to switch the knobs to see if the same thing happens with the other elements or if it’s a combination of a wiring error and the conducting knob.

Anyone who’s repaired appliances got an idea if I should be looking for a place to ground that element or just picking up a plastic knob? 220V appliances make me a bit nervy, so I shouldn’t like to take any chances.

Thanks.

2

Where are you getting the shock from? The knob or the metal pot/wisk etc…?

3

I think you should have that stove repaired by a professional before you electrocute yourself or burn the house down. Crazy, I know.

4

Not good. But more information is needed.

Is the pot on a burner? Do you get a shock only when the burner is on? Do you get a shock if you touch a metal part on the stove and the knob? Do you get a shock if you touch a metal part on the stove and the pot?

Find out the answers to the above questions and write back.

5

Sorry, to be specific, when there is a metal pot on the element, and the element is on, touching the pot and the knob for that element at the same time results in a mild tingly AC shock. Quite tingly, if, say, you’ve just washed some veggies and your hands are wet. A serious shock being conducted this way would of course be a Very Bad Thing, since it goes from one hand to the other, crossing your heart.

Manduck, thanks for that, but home electrics aren’t really that difficult, and I’m quite used to doing my own repairs in a totally safe way.

This just amounts to a question of common engineering for electric stoves: Is this problem likely to be resulting from improper wiring, or is it (as I suspect) that the designers counted on a plastic knob being used to keep the switch insulated from the element?

If it weren’t a 220V appliance, I’d just follow my gut, replace the knob, and think no more about it.

Part of me worries however that this might be happening because of faulty wiring to that element. (It wasn’t working because the leads had melted near the terminal. I just replaced the terminal.) I’m thinking, if it’s not just that the knob should be insulated, it might be that A) there’s a ground wire that I missed, or B) the insulation on the wires leading from the switch to the element has melted somewhere out of sight, causing a short, and they should be replaced altogether.

Chances are fairly good that another Doper has had the same problem.

Thanks!

6

Well, I switched the knobs around and checked to see if using the metal knob with another burner resulted in the same situation, and it doesn’t. So there’s definitely something hinky with that one element.

I guess I’ll pull the stove out and rewire the switch to the element. There must be a short back there.

7

That’s kinda funny, but I’m going to work off it.
You need to get a multimeter and measure the voltage from ground to the element and to the knob to determine whick is “live”. Do not use your body as a meter, **Joey{/b]. :wink:
For ground reference use a cold water pipe or the ground hole (U shaped) of a three prong outlet. Compare the other elements and metal parts under the other knobs. Be careful. That simple house stuff can kill you.
Peace,
mangeorge

8

Does the stove have another element the same size? If so, swap them and see if the problem stays with the element or that stovetop position. I’m suspicious that the element is bad and may have a high resistance fault to its own exterior.

9

Bingo!

That’s it, exactly. I’ll pick up a replacement element tomorrow.

Thank you sir, for that brainwave – you saved me some needless work, right there.

10

RULE No. ONE When working with something electric that you don’t understand DON’T! Get a qualified Technician Serviceman or Electrician.
RULE No. TWO If you think you know what you are doing, Stop and read rule no. 1
You cannot fully describe all of the specifics where anyone can do more than suggest approaches to a solution.
If they are wrong it is your life in the balance.
You are correct. You shouldn’t take any chances lest you take your last ride.

11

You’re very welcome. :smiley:

12

I appreciate the sentiment but, it’s perfectly easy to work safely on a simple appliance like an electric cooker without calling an electrician, if you have the barest idea of how electricity works and an ounce of common sense. That’s the joy of having circuit breakers, a multimeter, and a high school education.

Faced with a non-working element, I flipped the breaker and replaced the entire terminal. (Extra cautious, I probably could have just rewired the old one, but it looked a bit manky.) There’s not a lot to get wrong. Two leads. Splice 'em, make sure everything is properly insulated, put everything back, and turn on the juice.

It was a bit troubling that something was still amiss, but it wasn’t the result of incaution or error on my part. It was puzzling, but not using it, and not attempting to fix the symptom of the problem without getting some feedback is sufficiently prudent. I could have just changed the knobs and kept using it the way it is, without getting any tingly sensations when stirring and adjusting the heat-- but I didn’t like the idea of leaving a fault somewhere, waiting for a spilled pot or something to make the situation dangerous. I knew that many people have probably experienced the same thing and could give me a hint about where to look. A stove is the simplest appliance in your house, apart from a table-lamp. There’s only so many things that can go wrong with it.

As for “qualified servicemen,” I’m all for calling them when I’m not confident that something is within my ability. The last time I did was when an old breaker box became oversensitive and started tripping constantly, from just the load of a few lights. I don’t work on the breaker box, since there’s no meta-breaker box. :smiley: I want a professional for that. This guy came out and told me it would have to be replaced. No surprise there. The surprise came when he used a screwdriver to half-assedly arc-weld the damn breakers in the “On” position, raking it across the hot terminals while holding the switches closed, about eight times, until they stuck that way, “so the power would stay on until the hardware store opens tomorrow.” Sparks shooting all over my damned basment – five, six feet, into piles of empty boxes. I hustled the guy out of there, put on heavy rubber gloves, turned the box off, made sure no fires were smouldering, and spent the night by candlelight until I could call someone else the next day. :eek:

I would much rather take care of most household electrics myself, rather than trust some guy on the strength of an ad in the Yellow Pages. If you do it yourself, you know it’s done right.

Anyway, fishing for ideas saved me a bit of trial-and-error (not to mention moving the stove for access – whew) which, although perfectly safe, would have been time-consuming. Yay!

13

In my part of the US (and everywhere, I think) we’re obligated to use what are called “trip-free” circuit breakers, which trip even if you do hold the handle to “on”. You have to move the handle to “off” then back to “on” to reset.
No welding allowed. :wink:

14

They’re all that way. You can even get metal guards that fit over the handles and screw in place to keep someone from accidentally flipping the breaker off, for use on critical systems like a computer network, for instance. They will, however, still trip normally under an excessive load. You have to remove the guard and reset the breaker as you indicated. Nevertheless, if you abuse a breaker the way the “electrician” did in Larry Mudd’s post, then you certainly could weld the contacts into a closed position, at least on older breakers.

And Larry, the boxes don’t really go bad - they’re just an enclosure with rails for the breakers and some bus terminals for the wiring. Most likely it was one or more failing breakers, which are fairly easy to replace, or an unintentional partial short either inside the box itself, or in the house wiring.