Now that I’m old enough to gamble, I look forward to my first opportunity to try my luck at a casino sometime. I have heard about counting cards, I have also heard about how casino’s don’t like it very much. Is there a simple way to do this? Why is it so much harder to count cards in a multiple deck shoe? Why can’t you just factor in the additional decks? And why don’t blackjack dealers just shuffle the decks after every game?
I think it’s a safe bet (pun intended) that casinos don’t like it very much when you cheat.
Counting cards is illegal, cheating is illegal.
Do it once in Ace Rothstein’s casino, you’ll get your hand smashed to hell. (rent Casino)
Don’t do it.
I imagine this thread will get closed since what you’re asking for is illegal.
Happy
I don’t want to get kicked out of casinos or anything I’m just trying to think of ways to improve my chances as much as possible.
How is counting cards illegal? If I’m not using any mechanical device, just observing the cards being dealt out.
Why so much animosity for the intellectuals?
One such method is (fairly) easy; it is often called high-low counting. Instead of keeping track of individual cards, you assign each card a number that corresponds to how favorable they are to a blackjack hand, then keep a running tally as each card is revealed. For example, 2 through 6 are assigned a value of +1; 7 through 9 are 0. Tens (including all face cards) and Aces are -1. When the tally is positive, it means there are lots of tens and aces left in the shoe, which is good for your hand.
Multiple decks make it harder because there are more cards, plain and simple. To get what is called a “true count” with the above method, divide your count by the apporixmate number of decks still left in the shoe. When the count gets above 2.5 or 3, it can be favorable to increase your bet. When it dips below -2.5, it might be wise to decrease your bet or even sit out a hand.
Blackjack dealers don’t shuffle after each deck because people could realistically begin to truly count cards, i.e. know what the last ten or so cards would be.
There are a number of books written on this subject which can give you more details as well as a few other tricks to increase your odds. Check your local library.
Blackjack is the most favorable casino game, and all counting does is let you know when your odds increase or decrease. It is by no means a guarantee to win money. Counting cards might be illegal but the casinos cannot prove it as long as the counting you do is done in your head. The worst they will do is throw you out–but only if you are making them lose big.
To further address the issue of illegality, counting cards in your head is only illegal because the casinos are a powerful lobbying force. The reality is that the human mind is powerful enough to increase one’s odds at blackjack. Casinos would like to get rid of it but it is too popular.
I don’t believe counting cards (in your head) is illegal. If the casinos catch you, they can kick you out or prevent you from playing, but that has nothing to do with charging you with a crime.
… and I’m with Telemark on this. It may against house rules, but it’s not illegal. It can get you barred from every table in town, I understand they’ll snap a polaroid or share their pit video with the other places around.
Please DO rent Casino, and Rain Man, and see how your ass will get thrown out of a gamblin’ joint in a hearbeat if the almighty gamers think you’re shaving their profits. Rent Godfather II if you want to see how they got there in the first place 
PS: No, I don’t believe everything I see in a Hollywood film… this is just really good illustration. Kudos to chriszarate for making a really difficult explanation seem simple!
Okay, you’re all right.
And I’m all wrong.
See, I misunderstood the OP; I thought he said “Simple way to strap electronic communication devices to your balls in order to determine whether to hit, stand, split or double down”
Oops! 
Happy, to admit when he’s wrong
And a postscript: If there was a simple way to do this (and if it worked reliably), wouldn’t we all be living in Vegas or AC or Biloxi, in the Presidential Suite? They don’t build those huge hotels by losing money. Try the slots and some roulette first (for fun), and SET A LIMIT before you walk in the door. The ATMs gouge you for four bucks, that should be some indicator of the mentality there.
Thanks for the link, Happy! Your post snuck under my P.S., but it’s great. I especially enjoyed this part:
“The man’s equipment was very impressive. He wore shoes and socks. The socks were cut away so that his bare toes could input data into the computer. Switches were attached in the shoes with Velcro. He would push up with his toes for one, down for two, up for eight, down for four. These combinations permitted him to add up to any number. Wires extended up his legs to a battery pack located in his left rear pocket. The main portion of the computer was strapped to his left calf. Inflated balloons kept the apparatus away from his skin to avoid burns.”
Time for a career change, I’ll reckon!
Basically, if youve got the memory, nerve, concentration & acting ability to count cards, you could be earning even more doing something else.
I’m familiar with the method that chriszarate mentions insofar as it was recommended in the “New Gambler’s Bible” (I lent the book out, so I don’t have the author’s name handy, but I recall he’s a professor of statistics or something at Rutgers; I guess Altantic City is close enough for ‘research’ trips.). I’m not a big gambler, but the book seems to have a lot of good tips about betting and playing most casino games and sports books. One recommendation that the author makes is to practice the high-low counting with friends to get familar with before trying it at a casino.
Another recommendation he makes is to avoid the slots altogether. Casinos make up to 75+% of their money on the slots nowadays. This should tell you something–there’s a reason the casino floors are mazes of slots and other coin-in-the-slot games that you must negotiate to get anywhere. If you want to play them for entertainment only–go ahead. But expect to lose your money; slots are designed to tease you just enough to keep you playing (and losing).
In fact, according to the author, about the only thing worse than the slots are state run lotteries. He makes the point that lotteries are designed to raise revenue for the state. Your odds of making money are astronomically against you; whereas with sharp, astute, and knowledgeable sports betting or blackjack playing, you might get close to even odds.
blackjack has the best odds (versus the house) of any casino game. But you should play only in casinos that offer favorable table rules (i.e. double down after split, surrender, resplitting of aces)
However you must play perfect “basic strategy” to enjoy those odds. There are slightly different basic strategies for different sets of table rules. You can learn charts for basic strategy on certain websites or in books.
Playing “perfectly” and finding favorable rules can bring the house edge down as low as about + 1.2 % in the house’s favor.
The edge you can gain by counting cards successfully can push you over the even point to where you may enjoy up to about 1% advantage. That’s not so much (play with $10 chips for an hour and win on average about 10 bucks) especially when you consider that you need to be using advanced counting techniques to achieve that level of success. Simpler counting systems (like Hi-Lo) will barely let you break even over the long haul.
And it is VERY difficult to:
- master the advanced systems in the first place
- use them skillfully enough not to get caught
- make enough profit to ever justify this in the first place
As some one else said-- if you have the brains, memory, and skill to count successfully, you could make FAR more cash doing something else. (i’d suggest professional chess or something)
Counting cards is NOT illegal. Courts have ruled, repeatedly, that you are simply analyzing information that is available to anyone, and that to deny people this right is to deny them the right to play the game to the best of their ability.
Can you be asked to leave a casino if you’re obviously counting cards? Yep, in many towns. A casino is a “club”, and they’re welcome to kick anyone out they choose (barring certain discrimination statutes).
Blackjack computers are a stickier issue; I don’t know the current laws, but remember that they were illegal in Vegas, while legal in Atlantic City…or was that the other way around? The casinos have more of a case that you’re cheating, as the computers can analyze the odds so much quicker than you, as a card player, could.
The point is somewhat moot, because of this: casinos don’t particularly care if you try counting cards. Many, many people do. The reality is, it’s very difficult to make money at blackjack, even as a decent counter. Counting cards requires that you adjust your bets according to how you’ve judged the deck is stacked based on past cards played; straight-up blackjack players don’t change their bets much, if at all. Therefore, if you’ve got a guy betting $10, who suddenly starts putting down $100 per hand, he immediately draws the attention of the pit bosses. Are these guys going to break your legs? No. They’ll try damn hard to prevent you from winning. They’ll change dealers, reshuffle, etc. If you keep it up, they’ll likely ask you to leave, if they deem you a financial threat.
So, to recap: counting cards ain’t illegal, at least in Las Vegas and Atlantic City. Probably everywhere else in the US, as well. I can’t speak for the international segment.
And, as usual, I post indignantly and see that the guy I’m responding to has another message in which he agrees with me. Ah well, read my post anyway.
Here’s the straight dope on card counting:
[ul]
[li]It’s not difficult. A simple hi-lo count can be learned in a weekend.[/li][li]To beat the house in ‘shoe’ games, you need to be willing to bet at least 8 times as much when the count is high as when it is low, OR you have to be willing to walk away from the table as soon as the count goes negative and still spread maybe 4-1. Since most casinos have minimums of $5 per hand on the ‘good’ games, you’ll have to bet at least $40 per hand when the odds are in your favor.[/li][li]To do that without an unreasonable risk of losing your bankroll, you’d better have at least $2000 you are willing to gamble with.[/li][li]Betting $5-$40 won’t get you kicked out any casino, except for maybe the smallest, most paranoid ones. Most casinos tolerate small profit card counters, and consider them good advertising. HOWEVER, don’t be a jerk. The best way to get barred as a card counter is to make the casino want to bar you because they can’t stand you. Be an asset to the casino by being friendly, giving reasonable tips, etc., and they’ll let small card counters play all day long.[/li][li]Betting $5-$40 might earn you anywhere from $5/hr to $15/hr, depending on how good you are.[/li][li]Due to the tremendous amount of variance in blackjack, the 1% or so advantage you gain over the house will not be perceptible until you’ve played hundreds of hours. Over a period of a few hours, a card counter can easily lose more than the worst player in the place.[/li][li]Just learning how to keep a running and true count is only half of what you need to learn to be a card counter. Beginners should also learn the ‘top 18’ strategy changes. For instance, hitting a hard 16 against a ten when the count is negative or neutral, and standing on it when the count is positive. There are hundreds of variations you can master, but you’ll get the vast majority of the benefit from learning the top 18.[/li][li]Before you try card counting, you had better know ‘basic strategy’ perfectly. In my experience, most casual blackjack players who think they know basic strategy are often horribly bad. Do you hit a soft 18 against an eight? A seven? A nine? Do you hit a 12 against a dealer’s 3? Unless you can answer questions like this perfectly and without delay, you’re not ready to learn to count cards.[/li][li]Get a good blackjack training program that teaches you how to count cards. Most computer stores have at least one blackjack game that includes counting, and you can find them in ‘discount’ bins. Make sure you get one that allows multiple decks, and has ‘tutoring’ options in it. [/li][/ul]
Dan (Ex-Professional gambler)