I don’t know if the establishment of the Israeli state, at the end of World War II, was a good thing. I can certainly understand why European Jews chose to leave their anti-semitic homes during the 19th and 20th centuries and start a new life in the homeland of their ancestors. But I’m not sure if it was wise of the international community to eventually allow them to form a Jewish state in the region. It’s quite certain that the Holocaust is the reason why this was allowed.
This said, Israel exists now. It has existed for a few decades, and it is the home of many people. There is no way that destroying Israel could be a good thing. Maybe it was wrong to create it in the first place, but two wrongs don’t make a right.
This said, you’ll find precious few liberals (and indeed, people in general, in Western countries) who believe that Israel should be destroyed. There is a lot of criticism of Israel’s government’s policies, true. But criticism of Israel doesn’t mean hate for it, or for Jews, as people have already said, and I’m sure everyone here will recognize it.
And why are liberals criticising Israel? Well, maybe for some people there is the “rooting for the underdog” that someone mentioned, but for most people, it’s a honest belief that Israel’s government could do more in favour of peace in the Middle East. Yes, I know, someone will respond that Israel has already tried working towards peace several times, and everytime the Arabs have kept attacking. That may be true, but it hides the fact that many times the Israelis haven’t been so peaceful, and that “the Arabs” isn’t some kind of homogeneous block. And I do believe that Israel, as one of the few free, democratic countries in this part of the world, should be held to a higher standard. This doesn’t mean I want them to give in to terrorist attacks or let themselves be destroyed. They have the right to defend themselves. But they have to look at the bigger picture when they do so.
Right now, the impression that I’m getting (which comes partly from the Israeli dopers’ comments I’ve read) is that Israel is tired of striving towards peace and has decided that it will never happen. So they’ve just decided to strike hard, every time one of their neighbours, or a faction inside this neighbouring country, attacks. The hope is that eventually the Arabs, while continuing to hate Israel, will just be too scared to attack. Then Israel might know peace, while the Arab countries will be fourth-world countries with no infrastructure, plenty of poverty, no democracy, and possibly disease, but who cares about them, right? This, in my opinion, not only won’t work (I don’t think a hard response is likely to stop terror attacks), but is also wrong, since I want the Arab countries to eventually be democratic and free too. And I think it’s in Israel’s own interest to work towards this goal too.
Now, I’ll probably get the answer that the Arabs just don’t want freedom and democracy. They want dictatorship and theocracy, why would they vote for Hamas and Hezbollah if not? I think the reason is that they just don’t see these groups the same way as they are seen here. I remember hearing here that the reason why the Palestinians voted for Hamas at the last election was that it was the only viable alternative to a corrupt Fatah government. And they were running on domestic issues, not on the destruction of Israel (which is of course still part of their platform). As for the Hezbollah, yes, I can see why they would get close to 99 % approval in some parts of Lebanon, namely those where they do their charity work. The problem is that these groups are also terrorist groups. We don’t want to negociate with them, at least for as long as they keep up their terroristic activities, but in the end we might have to do it.
But I must also mention that I find offensive this viewpoint that Arabs, or Muslims in general, just don’t want democracy or freedom, and are fundamentally violent. I’ve seen it in this thread, and it is quite obvious in this current GD thread. To me, this is simply fear and hatred of Islam. And we will have to recognize that this is bad, as bad as anti-Jewish prejudice. Not to mention unproductive, since in my mind, an important part of the process towards democracy in Middle Eastern countries will be to let more liberal forms of Islam develop and gain followers. So when we hear that Islam is the “religion of peace :rolleyes:” (which is something I especially hear conservatives say), or when people are looking in the Qur’an for the proof that this religion is fundamentally incompatible with freedom and democracy, the only thing that it does is infuriate Muslims who would be sympathetic to liberal values. I mean, I read the linked thread, and some of these posts make me wonder what their author thinks would be necessary to ensure peace in the Middle East. Genocide against all Arabs from Morocco to Iraq (or all Muslims from Senegal to Indonesia)? Or merely an Ann Coulteresque “invade, kill their leaders, convert them to Christianity”?
Now, to finish, the claim that we can find left-wingers expressing support for Hezbollah and other terrorist groups. Sometimes it is due to these people being misinformed, but other times it is simply observers who misinterpret the situation. I will offer an example: Gilles Duceppe, leader of the Bloc québécois, a Canadian federal political party that advocates Quebec independence. Duceppe is quite left-wing in his politics. During the recent crisis in Lebanon, he participated in a peace rally in the streets of Montreal. It then came to light that some supporters of Hezbollah had also been part of this rally and had waved flags and chanted slogans. The Israeli ambassador to Canada then criticised Duceppe for his participation. Duceppe replied that he had accepted to be part of the rally on the condition that no Hezbollah supporter would be allowed and that security had tried several times during the rally to expel them, but that some of them slipped through anyway. He also showed a letter from the Canada-Israel Committee sent him, congratulating him for his unambiguous denounciation of Hezbollah. This, of course, did not stop right-wing pundits from the rest of Canada claiming that Quebec francophones are fundamentally anti-semitic, as they never lose any opportunity to do. :rolleyes:
– good thing you’re Young and Healthy 
