The only thing I have to add here is that it does not seem like this is directly comparable to “Separate but Equal” but equal. The difference being that whites and blacks are fundamentally the same, whereas males and females have fundamental differences. And interactions between males and females are inherently different than between those of the same gender - not that they will be so in all cases, but there are elements of difference. By contrast, interactions between people of different races are inherently the same as between those of the same race - to the extent that they are different it is not a difference that should be encouraged.
I’m not as sure about the benefits of single gender education. I belive I’ve seen studies that show that there are benefits - particularly for girls. Too lazy to look them up right now, but maybe I will if no one beats me to it.
I also think the arguments of the NEA about promoting stereotypes and leaving students unprepared for the real world don’t have more than a tiny kernel of truth in them - I would not consider them a factor at all.
I went to a single-sex high school, and let me tell you what a relief it was. So much of the social heierarchy B.S., the who’s got the right clothes and hair B.S., and the general hormonal B.S., was blessedly absent. We actually got around to the business of learning. There was plenty of time after school and on weekends for the opposite sex.
Sex is irrational. Sexual attration is irrational. It is a destructive force. It is the scourge of men that we spend so much time fixated on this goal in our younger years. We can eventually suppress it, but during our formative years it constitutes a strong barrier to the rational pursuits of our true interests.
As such, I most wholeheartedly endorse single-sex classrooms/schools. They encourage the independent growth of peoples, apart from the hormone-charged pseudosociety of public high schools. If social interaction must amount to merely a pissing contest, let it be a contest in which the smartest man pisses furthest, as opposed to the man gifted with the best tools for manipulation of the opposite sex.
Regrettably, such segregation could do nothing for the 10% of us males who are attracted to other men. Still, doing something beneficial for 90% of a particular group must count for something, and leaving the situation as-is isn’t doing anyone any good.
Really? That’s interesting. I went to a school that was single sex up until sixth form (the last two years of high school). I joined at the start of sixth form, and I was appalled by the lower school. They were generally bratty, uninterested in learning and more sex obsessed (usually in the form of porn) than those at my previous school (which was itself pretty bad but was coed).
I think it depends entirely on which school you go to, which means it’s a fairly obvious statement: There are good and bad single-sex schools, there are good and bad co-ed schools.
Personally I’m hugely against the idea of single sex schools - It’s even less representative of real life than a normal school is. However, I think if people want to have a single sex school they should be allowed to. For that matter I wouldn’t object to an all-white school either. I would have complete contempt for the school itself and the people who choose to go there, but I would support their right to create one.
My one year in a single sex middle/high school was exactly the opposite. The heirarchy/best clothes/best hair/best car/best boyfriend/etc. was worse there than it was at any other time of my school career.
Heaven help the girls (because the school administrators certainly wouldn’t) who didn’t conform to the rigid fashion, music, style dictates of their peers.
Well, amarinth, I guess that’s a difference between boys and girls. I didn’t want to be unkind in my previous post, but as I recall from grade school, the girls were the one who ruled the social heirarchies and the appearance police.
What are you talking about? There are schools that are traditionally African-American, but they are not “black colleges” in the sense of refusing admission to other ethnic groups. In fact, non-black students have been granted minority scholarships at these schools.
Most women’s colleges no longer have male counterparts in the traditional sense (many were founded as “sister schools” to all-male colleges that have long sense gone co-ed), but there are still a few men’s colleges left in the US.
Last time this subject came up, you said those were the only two “secular, four-year, all-male colleges unaffiliated with a female college”. And now just two months later they’re suddenly the only men’s colleges at all not associated with a women’s college. If you’re going to keep trotting out the same fact (which I note is not even particularly relevant here, as the subject has more to do with men’s colleges that are affiliated with women’s colleges), you could at least try to be consistent in your claims.
Fundamental differences maybe, but fundamental differences that have some effect on learning? I’d say no. Our current problems with schools are because of the schools and superficial changes like single sex classrooms would only hurt schools already limited resources.
I’ve read your statement numerous times now, and I’m at a loss to understand what the distinction you are making is. Because one statement has “secular” and the other doesn’t? In this case, it doesn’t make a difference.
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*Originally posted by Walloon *
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I’ve read your statement numerous times now, and I’m at a loss to understand what the distinction you are making is. Because one statement has “secular” and the other doesn’t?
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That and “four-year”.
Well, it’s obvious that it makes no difference to you that you are misleadingly treating two distinct claims as the same thing.
You are correct, I was mistaken when I said that you had not. However, dropping the word “secular” is in and of itself still a big change in your claim. There are several non-secular men’s colleges in the US. Claiming that the secular ones are the only ones that there are is not the sort of thing you should expect to get away with in GD.
