Oh, nevermind. I take that back, it appears Mr. Pretty is married to his wife.
No, it’s not just you. I guess that means that people that have children shouldn’t be a police officer, fireman or do construction work because there are risks. Must think of the children. Forget skiing or driving a car. I’m sure they don’t drink or smoke either.
As a child, I’d be pretty proud if my parents donated bone marrow to save someone’s life.
Has there ever been a death from someone donating bone marrow?
It is hugely different. Children don’t have to know that they’re the result of an unplanned pregnancy, and even if they do find out it’s easy to say “You came sooner than we expected, but we wanted you just the same.”
No such easy out in the other situation, because there’s no denying what you did. You can’t get around the fact that the donor child has to go in for tests, and operations, and possibly more operations later on. Even if they’re too young to remember, you can’t hide the evidence of the (hopefully) celebrations- pictures, videos, cards, of the sibling’s recovery process.
In cases like the one in the link, there is a 17 year age gap. Supposing they wanted to hide the fact that she’d been conceived just to save her sister- how can the parents honestly look at their daughter and say “Well, y’know, we just decided that things were too quiet, and even though our kids were pretty much out of the house we decided we really, really needed to have another baby.”
Not even addressing what happens when it’s not successful- when the child turns out, despite all planning and manipulating, to not be a match- how hopeless would you feel if you’d basically fulfilled your divine mission by the time you were 18 months old? I can just imagine that chat with the school counselor;
“So, Sally, where are you thinking about going to college? The local university has some good programs in history…”
“Gee Mr. Smith, I’m not really interested in college, or a job. The way I look at it, I’ve pretty much done what I’m supposed to. Why not just sponge off my parents for the rest of my life?”
:rolleyes:
If you mean an organ vs. bone marrow, the idea is that if you are left with one kidney, you are at greater risk in case of injury or disease to the one you have. Of course there’s dialysis and perhaps a transplant to you, but it’s not a negligible thing.
I don’t claim to speak for all pro-life people, but yeah, this is the difference.
As it happens I am taking a couple of months off from driving right now as it is too dangerous due to my status as a parent. I have taken a longer break from drinking. These step was advised by more than one authority, so it is not my own paranoia. I am not condemning others who facing similar situations and choose to continue driving.
Unlike you, I am not expanding my personal choices to be a moral imperative for the world, or even judging anyone but myself or those who would take care for my children. The right to our own bodies is sacred and complete. I am not going to sit in judgment on another because she chooses to exercise that right.
Who else would he be married to?
As far as why having children is important, I’ve always thought the reason was that someone has to take care of the kids. They’re dependant on their parents, so it’s important that their parents still be there for them, both for emotional support and to provide for their material needs. If one of them is gone, then part of their support is gone as well. If a childless person dies, it’s still tragic, but fewer lives are directly affected by it.
The amazing world of Happy Families that so many of you live in… I really must visit it some day. I can’t tell you the number of people I know who were quite aware that they were the result of an unplanned pregnancy, and whose parents made sure that they knew they were unwanted, in word and deed. You might think it’s hugely different, I don’t really see it.
I’ve read quite a lot about the Ayalas and their choice to conceive a child in the hopes that the child could eventually be a bone marrow donor for their older daughter. They agonized over the decision. Would that every parent in the world searched their souls so completely before conceiving another life. They knew the child might not be a match for their daughter, but they were welcoming another life into their family regardless. I think that time will show both the Ayala daughters to be well-adjusted young women because they were raised in a loving, caring, and apparently quite educationally and materially privileged family.
I was just exaggerating to show there are risks in everything we do. Of course our children should be a top priority but using that as an excuse not to donate is silly because the risks are minor.
Now if she had other reasons not to donate that’s her right too. But if you consider me thinking she’s a lousy human being for not helping her brother judgemental, than I guess I am. I feel for his little kids that are watching their father die.
Well, however this turns out, it won’t be Pretty.
Transplanting an organ is extremely different than bone marrow. Harvesting bone marrow from a donor is a fairly simple process: You go to sleep, they insert a needle into a bone in your hip, then you wake up feeling sore.
You are NOT cut open and if necessary it could probably be done while you’re still awake.
Donating an organ means you are cut open and the risks are vastly different. An organ donor is subject to much more physical trauma. Complications may happen with a bone marrow donation, but the overall risk to the donor is minimal.
I’d do it if there was the guarantee of his cancer going into remission, but if all it did was slow the cancer down, it’s not worth my time. Sounds harsh, but its my choice to go out of my way for something that isn’t a sure thing. Pain or risk aside. Also his quality of life isn’t likely to improve any, and I hate it that we expect people in pain to live just cause we have problems letting go. (and yes, If I have terminal cancer and am in constant excruciating pain I want to die)
Thank you for your responses to my last post, people - you have helped me put my finger on something that has been bugging me for a while. Yes, parents are indeed more important to their children, but not to the rest of the world. That is the distinction that has gotten lost along the way, I think.
That’s a good point. I lost a family member to cancer last year, and it seemed like the treatments were a very expensive and aggravating way to prolong her suffering for an extra six months.
Wow, the rules on how organ donations are handled must be very different in the UK than here in the US.
Five-six years ago one of my husband’s relatives was in need of a kidney donation. This was for a man in his 50s – a guy who’d been a heavy drinker and who’d done drugs on and off for ages. As it happened, this guy’s mother was the defacto matriarch of the tribe, and as soon as she got word he needed a transplant the pressure started. She did everything but hire a bus to get every possible donor taken off for testing - all with a total air of “Of COURSE you will want to donate a kidney, only the lowliest of scum would hesitate.”
But, in fact, there were more than a little grumbling. More than a few saw the guy’s health problems as pretty much self-inflicted. He might have had a right to trash his body in the way he chose, but now he was inflicting the results on people who had their own plans for how they wanted to use their body/health.
As it turned out, though, the clinic where the testing was done was totally cool about it. Each person was taken off by himself/herself, told about risks and such, but most important, each was counseled that if they didn’t want to donate, or even just weren’t sure yet they wanted to, the results would be listed as a non-match and no one else would ever know.
Apparently this is a common enough way of proceeding EXACTLY to protect people from being coerced into donations.
He seems like he deserves death to me. Sheesh, what a whiner.
Now I’m confused. Didn’t this whole thing happen in the UK?
I’m not going to judge the sister for not wanting to donate marrow to her brother, I’m sure she has her reasons and they aren’t really any of my business. I think it was cruel as hell of her to say she would donate, be tested and discover she’s a match, and then change her mind.
Wonder if she’ll have the balls to show up at the funeral?
Apparently, the sister did initially agree to be a donor, and only changed her mind after the relapse. Maybe if she had refused right from the start she would have been listed as a non-match as you describe.
Maybe she initially agreed and then changed her mind when he relapsed because he relapsed. If the cancer relapsed it might be back worse than before, and a bone marrow transplant would now have a lower chance of success. (Whatever “success” is in this case - cure? or prolonging the inevitable?)
Numbers and scenario completely made up
Say initially he had a 70% chance of recovering/going into remission with a bone marrow transplant. Sister doesn’t get along with her brother very well, but figures that’s good enough odds that she might as well help.
Then he goes into remission without needing the transplant. Excellent. Good for everyone.
Then the cancer returns and it’s worse than before. Maybe only a 20% chance of recovery. Sister is having second thoughts. Brother and wife put a lot of pressure on her and try to shame her into cooperating. So she says screw them.