I don’t know, I don’t share that irrational fear, but your comment got the same reaction from me.
George, George Bush! Is that you?
It must be very satisfying to see everything as black or white, good or bad, right or wrong. I can only hope that I never find myself in legal jeopardy and have 12 people, w/ such simplistic views, judging my fate.
Someone said something upthread about how pro-life people would feel about this issue, and it seems to me that anyone who calls themselves pro-choice has no business even expressing an opinion on the matter. Surely it is her body and her choice what to do with it, and she doesn’t owe one drop of blood or one cell of her skin to anyone if she doesn’t happen to feel like parting with same? She would owe no duty of care to the helpless unborn inside her that was there as a result of her actions and must surely die without her support; how much less (if you can owe less than nothing) she owes to a person whom she did not create and who has other hopes aside from her.
The interesting thing about this is he doesnt have to get her bone marrow to possibly survive. The article says he has a chance to survive without it by doing chemotherapy.
So hes angry so she wont risk her life so that he has to risk his less, rather than this being no risk for her so he can avoid certain death, as I suspect many people are translating this into.
So I kind of wonder how this gets decided. If she has say a 10% chance to die, and he has a 70% chance to live, is she still a cow if she says no? At what point is it OK to say ‘no thanks’ and how did people decide what that percentage is OK?
Because in my view his demanding her to do something he knows has a real risk to be life threatening is something I find pretty appalling myself, even if the chance is fairly small - let alone going to these lengths to try and get her to cave in. The only remote claim he has is they’re family and by his own admission they ‘havent been close’ (which I read as code for ‘hate each others guts’).
I just cant see it myself. I can imagine being disappointed if she refused, but thinking I had the level of right he seems to, that just doesnt work for me. Sure we might all go there if we were faced with death, but in my view thats another thing from having a moral claim to make that demand.
Otara
The “Morally Superior” position with which I have the hardest time, is the one expressed by this post. (not picking on SnakesCatLady she’s not the only one who has expressed something like it). And I have a hard time with it, because it is a position I can imagine myself being in. I love my brother, although we are not particularly close, and if I was told that he had cancer, and a bone marrow transplant might save his life or significantly improve his chances of having several more healthy years to be with his family (here meaning his wife and children), I’d agree to be tested in a heartbeat.
And then, after I was tested and confirmed to be a good match, I’d want to sit down with my brother, his doctor, and maybe some other interested parties (sis-in-law, our parents, maybe a spiritual counselor of some sort) and find out what the odds were really like. Figure out the risks and rewards for my brother, figure out what the risks were to me, and think about what my loss would mean to my world, versus what my brother’s loss would mean to his world. If I were still single and not feeling like I made much difference to the world, I’d probably agree to donate–with some caveats about not being interested in just prolonging the torment of the dying. But if I were married with children, or especially if I had children but no husband, I’d need to be assured that the risks to me were low, as well as that the likely benefits to him were great.
Why not do all of that before you get tested? That way, if you don’t want to go through with it, the doctors can go ahead and just say you weren’t a match, as StarvingButStrong said they did in her situation.
Why not decide whether I would be willing to donate bone marrow before being tested?
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Because the cost/risk/benefit analysis is not stagnant, but changes over time.
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Because my mental state might change over time–I find it easy to imagine being willing to do anything to cure my brother immediately after diagnosis, but not being so sure that whatever it costs was worth it six months later.*
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Because if I’m genuinely NOT a match, then why not get tested and find that out, before spending a lot of time agonizing over the circumstances in which I’d be willing to be tested or not.
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Truthfully, I might have a conversation or two with the Doctor, brother, etc. before the testing was done. Especially if I was told that they would report me as not being a match if I was uncomfortable committing to the transplant. I hope I never have to make that decision, though.
*Mom had cancer. Treatment took more out of her than the cancer did. Of course, part of that is luck-- they found her cancer early, while doing somewhat unrelated surgery. (Ovarian cancer, found during hysterectomy caused by “suspicious mass” that was unrelated to the cancer).
My fear may be irrational, but I can’t stand people who 1) act as if they’re better than me because they claim what they’d do in a situation that hasn’t happened yet, and 2) act like I have some sort of an obligation to save everyone else’s life. I don’t. I have an obligation to save my own life, and if I’m able to save others’ lives in the process, that’s just dandy. The only exception to that rule would be if I had kids, which I do not.
I agree that a true hero would probably be so selfless, but I do not like people who go around claiming to be heroes when they haven’t been in that situation before. And I am no hero.
~Tasha
Well, point number 4 changes things somewhat, and makes it easier to understand why you feel the way that you do. Before, it seemed like you would just immediately sign up for testing, without doing any research or soul searching, then start trying to decide what you want to do. Holding group conversations about you and your brother’s importance to the world while you all knew you had something that could save/prolong his life would most likely be just as agonizingly painful to him and his family as point 3 would be for you. Especially since your brother must have wanted the treatment if he’s asking people to be tested.
I know that the cost and benefit will change over time, but how long do they usually wait between testing, and the transplant?
I hope I never end up in a situation like that either. Several people in my family have gotten cancer as fairly young adults but no one has needed marrow, so I have no experience with that.
I don’t mean to pick on you specifically, but you’re expressing a position others in the thread have also expressed, and which bothers me.
It’s the “Morally Superior” attitude that you’d actually sit down and think about the risk/benefit and odds, and whether it’s worth it to you.
I figure if I’m going to donate something, I make that decision before I get tested and that’s it. It’s absolutely none of my business who gets my marrow at that point. It’s none of my business whether my marrow gives someone ten years of life or no extra time at all. I agreed to give it up and that’s that. If it goes to a 40-year-long smoker and drinker or a tea-tottling mother of three, it’s still none of my business.
I can’t imagine holding myself in such high regard as normally belongs to God, death penalty judges and triage doctors. I’d be completely disgusted with myself to change my mind after having been tested, and even if I did change my mind, I’d donate anyway, because that’s what I agreed to do - before getting tested.
Another thing, Mr. Pretty also said he was bringing this public in order to bring awareness to the need for people to get tested, and not merely to shame his sister. Since we’re short on facts and hypothesizing anyway, wouldn’t it be cool to find out the brother and sister actually do love each other but the sister found out she was incompatible, so the two families hatched a plan to turn it into a sensational story in the hopes more people would get themselves tested and registered?
I don’t even feel I have an obligation to save my own life. I wouldn’t kill myself but I don’t believe allowing death from natural causes is the same as suicide. I am child- and partnerless as well, which I’m sure colors my stance.
Any medical procedure carries risks. Many of them are minor, some not so minor. My life is not worth more than my brother’s, but neither is his worth more than mine. And even though in theory we are all equal in God’s eyes, in practice I do value some people more than others.
I may have overstated my need to be involved in the process of deciding whether someone should receive a bone marrow transplant. Not deliberately or for rhetorical purposes, but in truth.
(In general, I agree with you about once you donate something, it’s the recipient’s right to use it as best meets their needs, and if that bothers you, you should either not donate it, or donate it to someone who promises to use it the way you would want it to be used).
And I’m beginning to think that maybe I’m weird to think that getting tested should be a no-brainer, but donating bone marrow a choice fraught with shades of gray. A number of posters seem to feel differently on that issue.
Not cool in the slightest–manipulative in the extreme. If I found that out, and I’d been thinking seriously about being tested, I’d be severely pissed. Yes, it’s unfortunate that more people have not been tested. Yes, it’s unfortunate that many people who might benefit from a bone marrow transplant can’t find matches. But lying to people about the details of one particular such case as a way to generate publicity, very very bad.
Of course you/she would have the right to make this decision (a viewpoint that no one has argued against), but we also have the right to view you/her with contempt. Particularly you, since I have no idea why the sister refused, but you’ve explained very clearly why you would. Normally I’d feel sorry for you for your phobia, but when it comes to refusing to save the life of an admitted very-much-loved one because of fears you know darned well to be irrational (or your unborn, full-term infant), I find it rather difficult to work up any sympathy for you whatsoever. Especially since in your subsequent post, you sound simulataneously smug and defensive. I beg to differ, but I think in the case of a serious decision like this, it is absolutely possible to know that you would be a donor with absolute certainty, fear or no fear.
People overcome their serious fears for the sake of loved ones all the time, and often those fears are quite rational. You apparently wouldn’t even try to overcome an irrational fear for the sake of a very real chance to save a loved family member’s life. I don’t know that this makes you less moral than someone else, but it sure tells me that your idea of love is a heck of a lot different from mine.
Maybe I’m just a forgiving guy. Maybe I’ve just lived a sheltered life. But I’m thinking as hard as I can right now, I can’t picture anybody that I wouldn’t donate bone marrow to in order to save their life, whether it were a complete stranger or someone I knew and disliked.