Yeah, ever since Oklahoma City, I get nervous around white guys. Makes shaving a living hell.
So it IS the fault of the priets, and Rep Foley deserves no blame! Thanks, Lisa!
-Joe
For the last time, terrorists will not be praying openly or loudly criticizing GWB before boarding an airplane. They will make themselves as inconspicous as possible.
It sure has. Bigotry has again became completely acceptable to many folks. It’s like going back to 1960s. Except only the Browns have to expect and accept being victims of ignorant bigots.
This is the difference, I do accept the facts, and in the case of the cuffing I was wrong, I read a caption from a right wing blog that pointed at the photo as being taken at the time the Imams were kicked out from the US Air plane, the real caption is here:
BTW that is another confirmation that US Air denied them service after their interrogation. And the BBC also confirms there was a long interrogation, I’m not naive cosmosdan, checking more than one source is how one can get to the facts and dispose of ignorance. In any case I already agree there is no good information coming from the time the imams were kicked out of the plane, and that is why I do join you in “I don’t now”, but it remains silly to apply the same to what happened next.
Fact is they had no problems booking other flight in a different airline, fact is they were not terrorists, just like the customer is not always right the owner is not always right; and in this case, after the interrogation and rechecking confirmed they were not terrorists, the reasons they gave for their dismissal were not accurate at all.
I think the problem is that you are still stuck at the time the Imans were kicked of the plane, for that there is no solution since it is understandable mistakes will happen again, there is however a solution and the need to do amends after one confirms accusations against a client are not true.
See what I mean? I think we agree more than we disagree. I think you need to notice I’m more interested on finding a solution to prevent boneheaded actions after authorities confirm there is no threat, but there is no solution for people exaggerating suspicious activity, that I accept will have to continue (And I have to repeat myself once again)
It happens every time you point out that you don’t know, you are only mentioning your wishes in this case, it is very convenient in the sense that then one is never shown to be wrong (like me on occasion) Contrary claims from ignorance can’t both be true but both can be false, so I will assign more value to opinions based on confirmations and the facts.
If associates of McVeigh had made a videotape promising that more bombings were coming, if intelligence agencies were still unearthing cells that were in the final stages of terrorist activities in response to Waco, then, yeah, John Q. Public might overreact to white guys who drive vans.
All isn’t quiet on the Western front, nor is it quiet in the Middle East. Until it is, people in the U.S. are going to be skittish and suspicious of Middle Easterners and the Middle Easterners are going to be skittish and suspicious of Americans.
There was a U-Haul truck parked in front of my apartment building for 2 1/2 days last weekend. Somehow, I restrained my panic.
Do you have any reason to believe that these victims of religious bigotry are not Americans?
No, they can blame the hijackers for killing three thousand people. The blame for Americans turning ignorant, reactionary, bigoted jackasses lies squarely on the shoulders of those self same ignorant, reactionary, bigoted jackasses.
If you had bothered to read the thread before posting, you’d see that they did just that. They phoned the FBI and local police to tell them who they were, and where they were going. They made it a point to dress in Western style clothing, so they wouldn’t stand out so much. They prayed seperatly and discreetly, so as not to make a spectacle of themselves and make people nervous. None of that worked. What else should they have done? What else could they have done?
Indeed. If only the rest of the people in this story (and more than a few in this thread) could have shown a tenth of the sensitivity displayed by these Imams, we wouldn’t be discussing the issue right now.
PunditLisa, how is that reasoning any different from the sentiments that lead to the Japanese internment camps of WWII?
After all, we were attacked by Japan, and well, of COURSE Americans were going to be upset seeing Japanese people around them…see where this kind of thinking leads?
I accept that there is a good chance that US air may be in the wrong and trying to cover their asses. I’d love a reporter to ask the US air official if they did indeed deny to them another flight and why. Regardless of the cited reports I maintain that we’re not 100% sure that’s what happened. As I said over and over. I’ve seen enough of these type of confrontations to realize the Imams may not be totally honest about what happened. I find it somewhat interesting that the picture if the Imam buying the northeast ticket had two cameramen in it. Now you link to one showing them walking to their flight. My question is, who alerted the press to when they would be there the next morning?
I sincerely don’t know what you mean by the bolded part. AFAICT US air gave no reasons. Nothing to be called accurate , inaccurate, stupid, prejudice or anything.
If by solution you mean amends then I might agree. I didn’t see anything that said they were accused of anything. They were detained and questioned and the authorities found nothing illegal about them. At that point barring any other circumstances US air should have booked them another flight and even given them serious discounts for the inconvenience. All I’m pointing out is that those other circumstances may exist and we haven’t heard yet.
I agree. We need to educate people more so that people realize that there are many peace loving Muslims everywhere and a prayer to Allah is no more of a threat than a prayer to Jesus. If they were openly criticizing US middle east policies in the boarding area I’d say that was at least unwise and insensitive. Especially considering the reports of what great lengths they claim they went to.
I think you need to chose different words then. I’m not mentioning what I wish was true or even what I think is more likely. I’m only suggesting possible scenarios because we have very little information. The more information we have the more possibilities are limited. You yourself are projecting a scenario on the situation when you assume that US air is more likely to be at fault.
It’s possible the captain of that flight was a prejudice asshole.
It’s possible the airline officials were just being pricks after the authorities found no illegal activity.
You may think the very limited info we have makes those the more likely scenario.
I respectfully disagree and offer my scenarios as other possibilities. I’m not saying you’re wrong and I’m right. I’m saying we need more info to decide.
I don’t see any way that suggesting an alternative scenario that is actually possible based on our limited information, is arguing from ignorance, any more than your possible scenario is.
http://www.dinocrat.com/archives/2006/11/21/we-said-it-looked-like-lawsuit-shopping/
This appears to be a pretty right wing site but I wondered the same thing. I’m not in favor of prejudice or fearful profiling but isn’t it just possible that these men were hoping to create the uproar they created.
As I mentioned before. I noticed in the picture of the lead Imam buying his Northeast ticket there were two cameramen. There was also a picture of them walking together to their Northeast flight. Who alerted the press what time they would be there?
Then there’s this from the IBD link.
This may be right wing BS although it should be able to be verified or refuted. I think it would be terribly naive to assume the worst of US air and the best about the motives of these 6 Imams. We don’t want our love of protecting individual rights to be used against us.
Of course! They should make sure that they are never in the same room, same plane, heck even same airport as any other Muslims, just so you can west your widdle head.
I see! They have their heads up their asses if they don’t realize what stupid fucks surround them.
My god! The shame of them flaunting their religion in the faces of all those super discreet Christians just galls me. The next thing you know, someone will offer them the succor and comfort of the Lord Jesus and they’ll just out and flat turn them down. There oughta be a law.
And if they were? Unless it was staged, they were kicked off the flight. I don’t care if they are secretly sniggering behind their Korans.
As I found out, right wing sites are the pits in this matter.
If they were hoping for the uproar and did a few things to instigate some suspicion then I might refer to that as staged. Were they fishing for a lawsuit? Were they making anti America comments and praying a bit louder than necessary to purposely arouse suspicion to make some political point.
They were asked to leave the plane for more screening and refused. Okay.
In one report it said the flight was delayed three hours and the other passengers were re screened as well.
OTOH I read a link saying that the lead Imam will be joining religious leaders from other religions on Monday to pray and board a US air flight.
If they were innocent victims of prejudice and profiling then I’m glad to see them take a stand against it. If they were looking for trouble and found it then I have no sympathy for them.
Yeah, I definitely don’t trust them to be honest but an accusation like that should be checked out.
By experience, reports that start by saying “we bet” and “what the lowlifes were doing” is not worth the time to consider.
Anything’s possible, cosmosdan. It’s possible these so-called “Imams” were actually shape shifting aliens from the planet Zor who needed to be high above the Earth in order to open a dimensional vortex and admit their invasion fleet. However all the available information suggests the airline acted unreasonably. If more information is released I’m sure we’ll all adjust our opinions accordingly.
I meant to say that:
By experience, reports that start by saying “we bet” and “what the lowlifes were doing” are not worth the time to consider.
**cosmosdan ** I’m seriously thinking on dropping any ideas you are even pretending to be fair, a fair minded person does not ignore woppers like that (and those powerline people are hate mongers)
Correction: It was the dinocrat . com people who deserve the hate monger title, Powerline still gets the “not to be trusted” one.