Six Imams Ejected for Praying

The BBQ Pit
161

For you too. it’s dan. Not a she.

If you think that point is key then fine. We can discuss it. That doesn’t change the fact that you said I* ignored* it, which I clearly didn’t. Ignoring it would be not mentioning it at all would it not? So why don’t you admit you made a mistake and make your point if you have one?

I believe people overreacted too. The passenger who wrote the note and perhaps the pilot. How do you suppose the Imans reacted when asked to leave the plane. Polite cooperation? Is it possible they refused to leave the flight which made the handcuffs nessecary? If an innocent person acts up to much at a traffic stop they might get cuffed not because they did anything wrong but for non cooperation.

What I said before was we don’t know why they were refused other flights by US airways and I totally understand them boycotting that airline. I think there’s a good chance that they were so enraged they made threats and accusations at which point someone said.
“No more US airways flights for you …1 year”

It’s unfortunate. I’m just saying I believed their righteous indignation may have made things worse. I’ve seen that sort of thing happen before. …but I’ll admit I don’t know.

162

Indeed. You are correct.

Maybe I’m mixing you up with another poster then. I honestly thought you were female. I certainly didn’t mean it as a slight as begin a female isn’t a negative thing IMO. Being a silly person is though.

I’ve been stopped by the police and done the whole “yes sir, no sir, how high do you want me to jump sir” thing as well. Sometimes(probably always it’s the way to go) but I’ve also been pissed off sometimes and felt like I was wronged and got angry about it. Getting pissed off when somebody hassles you is certainly nothing new or surprising.

These people still were allowed on the plane so any official concerns beforehand were obviously not that strong. Until the authorities had to legitimise their actions after the fact that is after some passengers got spooked and the shit that went down went down.

163

Replied to that even before you posted. :slight_smile: I’m criticizing the willful ignorance, acknowledging you did mention that before does not take away the fact you continue to discuss like if that was not important in the decision to boycott or complaint to the airline.

But the same authorities who did the cuffing let them go after finding they posed no threat.

No evidence for this. (The reason why I called BS)

“And knowing is half the battle” – GI Joe :slight_smile:

164

The officers doing their job at a random stop is not the same thing as the airline personnel ejecting someone on the basis of them overtly practicing their religion.

165

[QUOTE=tomndebb For all the posters who think that they should just go away so that we stop feeling bad about the injustice they sufferred,[/quote]

I don’t think anyone here has expressed an opinion that they should just go away.

A boycott that clearly was designed to force change, not revenge.

For some reason the Imam’s motive for calling for a boycott is not clear to me. Given the small percentage of Muslims in the US and the obvious hysteria of the rest of the American public, I don’t think a reasonable person would think a boycott would successfully alter public views towards Muslims.

166

I was reacting solely to the article linked to in the OP. If we accept everything in the article you linked to as true then I think it’s unfortunate and even offensive that one note from a paranoid passenger should trigger such an incident.

I’m saying we need to work together to fight prejudice and profiling while also working to help people feel secure. If he took the steps he claimed then great. My question is why do you seem so eager to believe his story? It may be true, or it may not be yes? Also, he called the FBI and local police. Wouldn’t it make sense to call the the airlines and airport security as well?

I agree whole heartedly that praying and saying Allah out loud should not trigger this kind of reaction and Mr and Mrs Average Joe need to be educated on that and especially airport personnel. If a passenger writes a note I think the airline is obligated to at least look at the situation but at that point I would be asking the passenger, what exactly did you see and hear that you called suspicious. Interesting that the note pointed out their seats. Interesting that they thought sitting separately was less suspicious than sitting together. Why is that? Asking them to leave the plane to answer questions is one thing. Why were they handcuffed? It doesn’t really say. It doesn’t say if they refused to leave or not.
It’s an unfortunate fact of life that there is going to be profiling and prejudice when fear is cultivated. We all need to work against it.

I’d like to hear from more passengers about what happened in the terminal and on the plane. Someone mentioned that it might be a case of instigate something to cry prejudice and gain propganda points. It’s not impossible. I’d need more info.

167

Of course it isn’t, which I recognized. The similarity is that I was being stopped and questioned for little or no reason. Officers aren’t supposed to pull you over just because it’s 2 am and they think maybe you’ve had a drink or two. but they did repeatedly.

Also I think we’ve established that at least according to the article in the OP they weren’t ejected for* just* practicing their religion. Unless all that other shit was made up, which is not impossible, but I’m not going to assume it is without more evidence

168

Uh, Someone even told them to fuck themselves.

I think the point of many laws (after the civil rights movement) is to protect minorities. I think the point of altering public opinion is important, but not the main reason why the Imams are complaining here.

169

Couldn’t have said it better myself. Damn you, Miller! :wink:

170

That may be exactly what happened but I don’t think we know that based on the evidence we have so far.

My original point to you was you casually dismissed anyone who seemed to think otherwise and mentioned only the prayer. At that point I thought you were being the silly one.

Is it possible that the poster who suggested they might have done more than they claimed to arouse suspicion and then eagerly played the victim card is right? I’ve seen that happen over and over again as well. I’m talking humans in general.

You may not think so but it doesn’t mean anyone who doesn’t see it as clearly as you is a goofball.

171

Look dick weed, I was responding to specific points to someone else and regardless of your lame fucking attempts to make your point , YOU WERE WRONG.
I said clearly in the post that you responded to that We didn’t know why they were refused other flights. Thats simply a fact. You may see it as some huge social injustice but thats only your opinion. I’m not ignoring it.

My imagination says there may have been some heated words exchanged after they were pulled of the flight and some rep of US Airways decided not to let them fly US air. That person made a decision for his own business, no one else’s. It may have been wrong but I’m not sure why you’re calling it the key point.

If you feel it is good for you. I fail to see the point in this shit storm simply because I correctly pointed out that you were wrong to say I ignored it.

Get over it.

172

I think these gentlemen are seeking a change, not revenge. They made no claim to want to put US Airways out of business. They want this airline (and any similarly poorly run outfit) to stop allowing their personnel to harrass legitimate customers for being of the wrong ethnicity or religion. (Note that Dr. Shahin had previously used that airline frequently enough to rack up frequent flier miles–enough that he even got an upgrade on that flight. He mentions that he has previously been selected for special interest because of his etrhnicioty and has not cpomplained about it. His is angry in this case because he was subjected to extraordinary harrassment for spurious reasons despite making an effort to actually do what some people here seem to want him to do.)

Because his story makes more sense than the claims against him. If he is not a frequent flier and did not get an upgrade on that flight, the airline will be able to challenge him and discredit him. If he did not purchase round-trip tickets, he will be similarly exposed. On the other hand, photos of him and the other imams reveal that he and at least one other of the group are, indeed, rather portly, so the stupid claim by an airline worker that their request for two belt extensions was “suspicious” is clearly a lie. Perhaps it might have made sense to mention his travel plans to the airline (how many other organizations does he need to notify simply to exerciase his constitutional right to travel freely in this country? Airport? Airline? Taxi company? Restuarants? Local KKK?) but having notified the police, when the idiots in the airline called the police, he should have had an expectation that he would not be dragged off the plane in handcuffs. The photos of the group reveal persons who simply do not fit the profile of the angry young men who have been recruited as terrorists. (Heck, even Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity and those idiots generally refer to the need to profile “young Middle Eastern men” and these guys (including their blind companion) simply do not qualify under that profile.) Even the claims that they were condemning the Iraq war substantiate Dr. Shahin’s claim that they restricted their speech to English, else how would all the paranoid xenophobes know what they were taliking about? And even the airline admits that they refused to get him another flight, although they refuse to say why.

So far every bit of evidence points to idiots and xenophobes behaving badly and every bit of neutral testimopny supports Dr. Shain, so I am quite willing to consider his story more accurate than theirs. (I have even cut the idiot airline personnel some slack in accepting that different people will interpret the chanting of prayers as more or less disruptive depending on what side of the cultural barrier they stand, but the actions of the airline and other passengers still make them look like the only jerks in the story.)

173

I’m already over it, but you did not notice you numbnuts; and you have no evidence for your imagination, so it is still BS. Have some Ovaltine and let it go, yeesh!

174

Again you are wrong. I never said or implied any such thing. In fact I said I totally support their boycott of the airlines.

which is a separate decision from the US air one to not fly them at all.

There’s no evidence of any reason they were refused another US flight, which is why I said we don’t know…that means you don’t know either. You’re making a key pointy out of something you have very little information about. I made a suggestion of a possible scenario. I didn’t present it as fact so it’s not BS.
Neither of us should assume as fact anything we lack evidence for.

It’s a good idea for either of us to admit the things we don’t know right?

175

Read post #160 again so you will get a clue.

176

Gandhi, too, as a young lawyer in South Africa, had a little travel mishap early on, which had a great effect upon the world:

**Several years later, just before his seventieth birthday in 1939, Gandhi was interviewed by a missionary, Dr. John R. Mott. Mott asked Gandhi to single out the most creative experience of his life. This was Gandhi’s reply:
“I recall particularly one experience that changed the course of my life. Seven days after I had arrived in South Africa the client who had taken me there asked me to go to Pretoria from Durban. It was not an easy journey. On the train I had a first-class ticket, but not a bed ticket. At Maritzburg, when the beds were issued, the guard came and turned me out. The train steamed away leaving me shivering in cold. Now the creative experience comes there. I was afraid for my very life. I entered the dark waiting room. There was a white man in the room. I was afraid of him. What was my duty; I asked my self. Should I go back to India, or should I go forward, with God as my helper and face whatever was in store for me? I decided to stay and suffer. My active non-violence began from that day.”

That wintery night in the waiting room on a railway platform, Gandhi made the fateful decision which changed the lives of thousands of South Africans and still inspires us today.**

177

Fair enough. I certainly think there’s a good possibility that people at the airline fucked up and then just tried to cover their asses. I wonder about the handcuffs. Why handcuff them unless they refused to get off the airplane? Even at that I would understand them refusing to get off.
I also don’t understand refusing to give them another flight without some kind of confrontation unless some mid management genius decided putting them on another flight would be like admitting they were wrong.

I’m not sure how much neutral testimony we have. I’d be interested in hearing some more.

178

If I’m wrong I still wonder what the heck you are defending. What you posted was:

No evidence for that at all, and then you ignored that item (that the authorities found them to be ok to travel) in the following posts. Supporting the boycott or not was not the reason why I called BS.

Wrong, I took a look at other reports like tomndebb, so far even you had to acknowledge you have missed a lot.

It is BS when there is no confirmation of it.

And here is were you fail, the fact that the authorities let them go says to me they took information from witnesses (both against them and in their favor) and concluded the Imams presented no threat at all, if any violence or threats were there I simply cannot see how the authorities merrily ignored that. It is just simple logic. That position can be changed if evidence to the contrary is produced. Therefore, the default position now is that they are innocent of even screaming until evidence is provided against them.

179

I read it again…it’s still wrong.

You *felt * that I was ignoring it or not giving it the status it deserved. I get that.

Let’s drop it.

180

Gandhi is one of my heroes and I did think of this scene from the movie.

I’m definitely in favor of all Muslims and non Muslims using non violent protests to correct social ills.

I think it’s the duty of all people to defend the rights of our fellow humans with patience and compassion. All humans! Not just “our kind”