It’s called sympathy. It ain’t hard. And if you can’t manage it, you probably shouldn’t be giving advice on how to be dealing with grief.
Think about it. You did the very thing you’re telling him not to do. You deliberately tried to upset a grieving person because they did something that offended you, even violating the rules by calling him a dick, the same way you think he’s violating the “rules” of propriety for feeling the way he feels.
And, now, let me cover the other side to be fair. This is a board where people are used to just throwing out their opinions like this, including ones where they get really deeply offended. I think, all in all, this has actually been a pretty good thread for when a majority of the thread thinks the OP is doing something wrong.
The only posts that really bothered me were the ones where people came back and defended their actions once the impropriety was pointed out. I hope I was able to clarify why their responses were wrong (and hypocritical, to boot).
Are you fucking kidding me? I know it’s not a competition, but the man specifically asked:
So I described my family’s similar situation. We dealt with it, and he needs to, too. And what his father is doing with his new girlfriend is tame compared to what ours did. We got over it, and he and his family should, too. Count their blessings — it could always be worse. Don’t like my answer? Tough noogies, it wasn’t meant for you.
It would be interesting to me to understand what kind of relationship the parents of the posters siding with the OP had.
When i was about 7 (i’m 33 today) my parents when through an ugly divorce, the two of them still refuse to speak to each other today. They both have been remarried for many years (longer than my parents original marriage) and i am pretty close with both my step-mother and step-father. Maybe i’m pretty jaded about relationships based how ugly my parents divorce was, but if one of my parents/step-parents passed away, i wouldn’t have any hangups about the time period before the surviving spouse started dating again… relationships end (through death or otherwise) and people move on. The idea i would begrudge one of my parent’s finding a new happiness quickly seems like it would an incredibly selfish reaction.
I have an uncle who was married for over fifty years to my aunt, the mother of my cousins.
After she died he dated again, and married “New Wife” She was a widow with grown children, and had been acquainted with the family years before, as her kids had attended the school my aunt was a teacher at.
“New Wife” is a wonderful lady, just what my uncle needed, and I’m sure she has extended his life by some years. Sadly, they are both hospitalized now, she with beginning dementia, him with mobility issues.
When my father-in-law died my mother-in-law very quickly became involved with the surviving half of the couple that had been their best friends from beginning double dates … a man my wife had grown up calling “Uncle ----” whose wife had died of cancer several years back.
My wife didn’t express “disapproval” but felt it and she did explain that she just couldn’t come and visit and stay in the house and see someone coming out of her parents’ bedroom in the morning yet. It took her a bit and her mother was bit upset by that.
The discomfort is natural.
For my part I wondered about the fact that my MIL had never been an adult functioning by herself, literally; she married a few days before she turned 18. I wondered how much of the immmediate relationship was panic over being alone and if it might not have been better for her to have been able to function as an individual and not part of a couple for a little while. But they have been very happy together and my wife took a while but now slips and refers to them as her parents …
Our op sounds like he is mourning both the loss of his mother and the loss of a fantasy realtionship with his father that he feels was dangled in front of him. But his father is under no obligation to mourn in a manner that makes others feel better. The op can either accept his father for who he is and have a relationship with that real person or mourn the double loss and move on with his life. But anger comes pretty early in grief … doesn’t it? Give him some time.
The grieving aren’t beyond reproach. Especially six months after-the-fact in a IMHO thread.
I’m 36. My parents have been together all my life plus 9 years. When I think of one, the other is not far behind. I see them as individuals, but they are also very much a couple in my eyes. Like a pair of sneakers.
If one of them died and the other immediately started dating someone else, it would be very difficult for me to process this intellectually and mentally. It would be like seeing someone wear a sneaker on one foot and a flipflop on the other. Eventually, I would be able to adjust to the pairing, but it would take me a while. Selfishness would have nothing to do with my reaction.
Honestly, I’m surprised so many people seem to think the OP is coming from left-field with his feelings.
Not with his feelings, he is entitled to his feelings and they are understandable. He needs to be able to work through them. I think others are reacting to the same bits I am:
Sure it is hard to process. Sure our op had built up hopes of an improved relationship and is experiencing the loss of that to this new relationship. I doubt many here cannot understand that those things are difficult and can hurt. Grief, jealousy … it all gets mixed together.
But letting those feelings manifest as anger on his Dad and in an attempt to tell his father how he should behave is over the line. The attempt to demand that his father should subjugate what is making him happy out of respect for what his children think is “appropriate” (he was not miserable and lonely long enough for their sense of propriety and their grief process) … that behavior will only cause pain for all involved.
NO, they don’t need to talk to him about it and tell him how inappropriate he is. They need to recognize that Dad is a big boy who is entitled to be the person he is. If they need space from that, like my wife did, fine. Take the space and take the time but own the problem. It is his problem not his father’s. If the father asks what he thinks he can, with some sensitivity, share what his problem is. But expecting his father to change to solve it would be selfish.
I mean I get it, its about a sentimentality for this perfect version of the family unit. I’m not saying the children can’t have difficulty dealing with it, but the moment the children bring it up to dad in the form of “I don’t think you should date until I’m ready” is where i have a problem. Again, I think the fact that my birth parents refuse to be in the same room with each other really shapes my opinion on this, as I don’t have this fantasy that mommy and daddy love each other forever and always and were each other’s one and only.
That’s it exactly. He is entitled to every feeling he has, no matter how irrational they are - and I don’t think any of his seem irrational. They seem like normal emotions under the situation.
What he is not entitled to is to push his feelings onto his Dad and demand that his Dad change his behavior for his sake. Perhaps, if his relationship with his Dad were different, a gentle “Dad, I’m not really comfortable with…” and “I think over time I’ll like Mary, I’m just not ready to see you…” would work. But it isn’t different. And it was already brought up. So now, it gets dropped.
And that is why you have anonymous internet boards, so you can come here and rant - and ignore those that say you should do anything - what you want to do is vent. This one isn’t the best - too many fixers for anyone to successfully rant - and too many people ready to tell you that your feelings aren’t rational. But there are places dedicated to the rant and the vent - to post anonymously.
That was the mistake my mother in law made. Her feelings were hers, they were deep and she was entitled to every one of them. But she wasn’t entitled to tell my friend Dave that his memories of my brother in law were offensive and that she wanted pictures removed from Facebook - sharing those memories and those pictures was part of HIS process and they were HIS memories and HIS feelings. Any more than I was entitled to tell people “you need to take all pictures of him off Facebook and stop sharing them because you make me cry every morning” (I just spent two months avoiding Facebook until my emotions were less raw.)
But there is a line, right? If the dad was bringing Mary around and making puppy dog eyes at her across the dinner table a mere day after the funeral, when the dirt is still fresh on the casket, would it be okay for the OP to express his frustration about this? If yes, then timing is the crux here, not whether or not it’s wrong to make this kind of request of someone. If you think the OP would still be out of line regardless of the timing, then I respectively disagree. There’s no real hardship in keeping certain things private until a decent interval of time has passed. Like tellling jokes about a deceased person, there is such thing as " too much, too soon". And it’s fine to tell someone to put a lid on that for the sake of group morale.
Believe it or not, I do get what yall are saying, really I do. But if we agree that the OP’s (and siblings’) feelings are valid and not unreasonable given the circumstances, then it’s not unreasonable to expect dad to be a little more sensitive to these feelings, to the extent that he’s not damaging his relationship with Mary . A good father should be sensitive to both his own feelings as well as his loved ones. If he thinks that’s too much to ask of him, then he shouldn’t be surprised if his kid’s respond negatively to that and pull away from him. No one is entitled to anything; that’s just the nature of human relationships. Especially when the relationship ties are rather weak to begin with.
This is not what the OP told the dad, though. I agree that this would be problematic way of handling things.
He has the right to express it as many times as he wants, freedom of speech and all that. But Dad really doesn’t have to listen to it ever, or change his behavior ever and can react by saying “get out of here.”
And maybe its reasonable for a Dad to change, but it doesn’t seem reasonable to expect THIS Dad to change. And it hasn’t been a day, its been six months. For four of those months Mary has been an important part of his life. AND the complaints are about past behavior - a Christmas that is gone, adult children that aren’t going to see Dad again for a few months. So the best that happens is that he makes Dad feel bad for being insensitive and gets a sincere apology. The far more likely outcome is Dad gets offended because his adult kids are telling him how to live his life and they aren’t there day in and day out noticing that their mother isn’t around anymore and accusing him of insufficient grief. If he spent two months wracked with grief until his relationship with Mary became intimate and made him feel like life was worth living - anything the kids say is going to sound like they don’t give a damn about him.
Its his way of dealing with the shock, the grief, the pain and the lonliness.
You and your wife have each other to support each other .
He hasn’t, and no its not emotionally the same having to "share " if thats the right word with those you’ve spent years looking after, its a different mind set .
I know how you feel, it seems somehow disrespectful to your mom, but its not hurting her and its helping him with his grief, even if he’s not showing it in public.
Be happy for him, and don’t load your disapproval on top of his present grief, for his sake .
First of all, SanibelMan, I’m sorry for your loss.
The only thing I feel like addressing that hasn’t already been said better by another poster relates to these thoughts rather than directly to the question you asked in the OP:
It might not be that she’s not welcomed in. She might have children and grands of her own that she spends holidays with. If he’s refusing to take her along that’s different. I could see ending up in a situation like that myself. I was divorced once and recently widowed. I already have relatives and in-laws galore. If I manage to have a next relationship I don’t think it will have the same “let’s make a family” foundation that the previous ones had. Particularly if his kids are adults, I wouldn’t be hurt if my hypothetical boyfriend spent holidays with his kids honoring their traditions while I’m off in another state honoring mine.
Good post .
Boy am I glad I don’t know some of you.
I see absolutely no reason that randy Dad’s feelings are the only ones that so many of you seem to think should count here. The kids and grandkids feelings are every bit as valid as his. Their loss is just as great as his, maybe more if his behavior is any example of his feelings of loss.
That said OP, I don’t really see anything you can say or do that’s going to change your dad’s behavior. When he has so little respect or consideration for how the people he supposedly loves might be affected by his unconventional behavior, I can’t imagine what you could say or do that would suddenly open his eyes to the fact that you all have feelings too, and that he is being pretty damn selfish and rude. Notice I didn’t day he should stop dating this woman, but he should be more cognizant of the fact that what he’s doing is hurting people he in theory, loves. Subtlety on his part could have made this so much easier, and maybe, if the relationship lasts long term, even given you time to come to care for this woman.
At this point, I think you should be figuring out what to do to change your own behavior to make this more tolerable for you, because I don’t think he’s going to change. I don’t think he would take at all well to a request that Mary be left out of family functions, at least for a few months. If he wasn’t thoughtful enough to see why that might be a problem without being told…well, I don’t think he’s going to care. Honestly, I find that there are just some people out there, sometimes family, who’s choices are not ever going to be something you’re comfortable with. We’re all different, and sometimes you find that when there is too great a difference, you just need to walk away. It’s better than letting things continue to eat at you, that just poisons your soul and can eventually lead to breaks that will never have any chance of being mended. Maybe some distance will help.
My condolences on the loss of your beloved mother.
I felt sorry for the OP right up to the point where he started talking about how rich his dad is and how his girlfriend is working two jobs and how she’d have waited for Dad if he wanted to take things slow (because apparently she’s in it for the money) and how when she said “I’m not going to spend all his money” she didn’t know how that sounded. (To me it sounded like she wasn’t going to spend all his money, and she was joking a little to try to loosen up these uptight kids.) All this talk of money made me wonder how much of this is about mom and how much about dad’s dollars.
First of all, that last sentence is a crappy thing to say. I don’t think it’s fair to say that because he didn’t curl up into a ball alone in a corner, his feeling of loss are diminished.
Second, I quite agree that his kids’ and grandkids’ feelings are as valid as his. But you seem to be saying that they ought to be more valid… to the point that you seem to think that he should amend his grieving process to help them with theirs. Why is he required to do this - having lost his spouse of 33 years he must now also sacrifice what company he can find in order to keep his children from rejecting him? - but they are not?