Yes, A&P mechanics need all these, plus others, most importantly, ( A/C ) systems knowledge, and the theory therein.
There exist “helpers” in some A/C maintenance environments, AMTs ( A&P mechs ) have more autonomy over the process, though there exist some pressures toward the “Taylorization” of the craft. Foremen/supervisors are more administrative in function, though the more knowledge from their mechanic days they retain, the smoother things run and the more effective they are in decision making.
Not the USA, but:
My dad was, before he retired, an auto mechanic. It’s my understanding that might have have made him “middle class” in the USA, by the “own a house and send your kids to college”-type of criteria, but also a tradesman and hence not middle-class by the petite bourgeoisie sense I grew up with.
His collar was seldom white.
His brother was a signwriter. However, they were the sons of a school principal and by my lights, that made them firmly middle class by upbringing.
But most of my siblings are definitely middle class now, working in white-collar jobs like IT, science, HR and teaching (one brother is a machinist - but owns his own house, paints oils in his spare time and goes on Buddhist retreats, so also still middle class, I would say).
So the viable path to the middle class might be generational. Or we were always middle class, for generations, even when my dad held a blue-collar job.
A lot of the confusion about the term “middle class” in the USA is the relative stagnation of wages versus the non-stagnation of both prices and the list of goodies that non-poor folks take for granted having.
We’ve seen the unionized big factory worker with company paid pension & health care be replaced by the small town factory or clerical worker in a 40-person company with zero benefits at half the hourly wage. Meantime the price of housing goes up at 2x the rate of consumer inflation while college educations and medical care go up at 3x or 4x the rate of inflation. That guy’s work didn’t leave the middle class; the middle class left his work.
Culturally the “Behave well, be ‘respectable’, work hard, get ahead, you’ll do OK and your kids’ll do even better.” ethos mutated a bunch towards: “It’s all a con; hard work, etc. doesn’t actually pay off. Be a celebrity or a scammer or else you’re just a schlub. So Fuck 'em.”
Neither of those trends can go much farther before something very important breaks down in this country. Arguably it already mostly has broken down.
I was using “foreman” and “helper” in the context of my industry. If we send a repair crew (big crew truck, backhoe on a trailer), the crew leader is a foreman. He needs lots of knowledge and experience. He is in charge of the work in the field, and is responsible that work gets done safely and in a timely manner. The more experienced second is a "fitter, " “operator,” “mechanic,” and he usually runs the backhoe. The third guy is the least experienced, and is a “helper,” or “apprentice.” He is still learning, possibly getting classroom as well as on-the-job training, and does much of the grunt work–hand digging around lines, getting tools and equipment, removing old coating, spotting, cleaning up, etc.
Another thread discussed officers/non-coms, and we have a similar setup. We have advanced foreman who are like sergeants, and supervisors, who are like junior officers in charge of several crews. They do the administrative work–deciding who does what today, lining up locates, working with other departments.
These jobs don’t require college degrees, but they do require smarts, at least if one wants to move up. The people who do well are doers–they don’t like sitting in a office, they like to be moving around, they like to work independently, and they work well with their hands. The best are both book smart and street smart, so they can synthesize what they read and hear with what they find in the field.
Back in the day, it wasn’t uncommon for crews to work together for years, and it took years to move up. We would send out 3 and 4 man crews, but those days are over. We’re having trouble getting enough 2 man crews out to do the work.
I’ve been saying this for years. The problem with vocational programs is that they were always billed as a “good path for problem kids”: kids that aren’t so bright, that aren’t so motivated. But success in the trades requires solid intelligence and self-motivation.
It’s also a fact that a lot of trades suck. For those of you working in a white collar job, how much of a raise would it take to get you to commit to spending the rest of your life working outdoors, doing fairly repetitive, physically stressful and dangerous tasks every day? And if you get badly hurt or sick, you can’t go back, it’s SSDI for you? I know I wouldn’t do it for a 20% raise. I don’t think I’d do it for a 50% raise.
I think white-collar workers really want other people’s children to be tradesmen, and it’s out of self-interest. But it’s not the life most of us want for our own kids. Not because it’s shameful, but because it’s painful and dangerous.
And I concur with the statement above that you can’t call a person running a small business as being “in trade”. They are a small business owner, which is a viable path that I honestly wish we pushed/supported more as a society. A small-business owner program that presented the trades as a potential springboard to that (among many) would seem more likely to actually help people out.
The “pass a drug test” is a huge barrier in hiring right now, and as we legalize marijuana in more and more states, we are probably going to have to back down on that requirement for some of these jobs just to get people to fill them. (One of the issues with marijuana is that unlike alcohol, the test isn’t for “are you impaired now”).
(As someone who handles placements in IT, I’m seeing more and more companies drop drug test requirements)
This. You can drink until you pass out Friday and Saturday, and have nothing to show for it in a drug test come Monday.
If you toke it up on Friday, you will still be unable to pass a test the following week.
So long as marijuana is illegal, then it is not without some merit to screen for it, as purchasing, possessing, and consuming it is an illegal activity, so it doesn’t really matter if you did it last night or last week, you were still breaking the law.
If it does become legal*, then it does seem as though screening for it needs to change, as while it is certainly of value to determining if someone is able to show up for work sober, what legal activities that they do on their own time shouldn’t preclude them from employment.
*It is not currently legal anywhere in the US, even if states permit it.
Plus / minus the fact that if employers had an “uncorruptably scientific” a way to detect chronic heavy drinkers who’re sober at the moment they’d screen for that too. Unless such screening was flat illegal.
But for sure with MJ in a legal vs cultural twilight zone we’re building in an ever-growing mess.
But there’s also this factor about MJ vs booze:
If you want to start a long and noisy thread try this one in GD: “Resolved: Heavy or long term MJ use {does/does not} produce chronic laziness / stupidity / carelessness.”
We’ve certainly done it a time or two and the stereotype of the “stoner” comes from someplace. I’m not real sure I want a stoner running power tools in my shop or repairing my plumbing even if it has been 36 hours since he was last baked. I readily grant this attitude is controversial with the MJ users. I’m not qualified to say how it sits with non-MJ users other than myself.
Just a friendly aside-not a good spot for initialisms. A/C could as easily mean air conditioning as A/C=aircraft maintainance and I had to do some extra reading work to figure out which it was+plus use some insider knowledge about various dopers. Hope I got it right.
In aviation industry speak an “MRO” is a “maintenance, repair,and Overhaul”, essentially the equivalent of your local independent car repair place. The can fix your broken jet, or fix and return broken gizmos you send them, or do a complete overhaul, paint, interior replacement, engine replacement, etc.
A good article on the construction industry, with some of its argument anticipated her by LSL Guy. Some of its points: much of the construction industry and its associated trades has long been gig economy work; the breaking of the unions has led to worse pay and conditions AND a steady supply of well-trained workers. Construction trades are not the only trades, but the article does suggest “become a plumber and clean up!” is not great career advice.
I retired from an electrical utility, and our company began succession planning for the boomer retirement hump back in the 80s. It wasn’t unpredicatble.
Pretty good company for demographics, too. Did a lot of recruiting in minority communities.
So my son finally finished his welding certificate (he’s had some issues) and had a job within days. It isn’t an awesome job (but he didn’t look hard) in terms of "path to middle class) but its an awesome job for a 22 year old who lives with his parents.
Hourly - $19 an hour starting, raise after six months. No benefits. Its a really small shop (six people) that does custom welding work for residential applications (think stair railing in multi million dollar houses). So in some ways its a great first “real” job - lots of variety, my kid is going to be good at it (he’s exacting and this isn’t the same weld on a factory floor for eight hours a day)…but he is going to need more money and benefits to get to middle class.
His welding instructor managed to convince him of something his parents couldn’t…get your AA in business. So we said “do this for a while and then start taking night classes.”
It’s telling that the path to the middle class is not “become a skilled trades person” but “hire skilled trades people to work for you.” That’s a more accurate description of the middle class, or a segment of it, than measuring income.