I took a bus to a casino and they gave me a coupon for $25 in free slot machine play. Had to be used on slot machines, they wouldn’t allow it on table games. And you couldn’t cash it out immediately; you had to gamble it first.
A woman offered me $20 cash for my coupon, and I took it. But then I realized, $20 is 80% of the $25 theoretical value, so as long as the slot machines pay out more than 80% of the bets, then she comes out ahead on average. So my questions:
In Atlantic City, is there a guarantee that slots pay out more than 80%? (I’ve seen occasional signs “98% payout!” over certain machines, but I’m told that applies only to those particular machines and not to the other slot machines in the casino). Did this woman in fact make money by buying my coupon for $20?
Given the payout structures in a typical casino, what’s the optimal slot strategy for this woman to play? Find a $25 slot machine and bet it all on a single pull? Or five pulls on a $5 machine? Or does it not matter? I’ve heard the higher limit slots pay out a higher percentage than lower limits, but I’m skeptical of that claim since it doesn’t seem to be advertised anywhere. (The only “98% payout!” signs I saw were on the penny slots. The $100 slots had no such signs).
… [the minimum payout in Nevada is 75%, in New Jersey, 83%, and in Mississippi 80%.](For example, the minimum payout in Nevada is 75%, in New Jersey, 83%, and in Mississippi 80%)
That doesn’t mean that some machines won’t pay higher (in fact, most will). They just don’t pay over 100% unless you hit a big payout and quit. They machines are “Random”, but the controlling computer in them will nudge the randomness around a bit to meet the pre-programmed payout averages. They are not programmed in any way to hit certain combos at certain times, or after a certain number of coins. One of the reasons they have the nudge built in, is to account for various pay-line plays (one vs. more then one coin), and to make sure they are in compliance with the gaming commissions.
ETA: The slots are there for the casino’s to generate income. That’s it. Even on a .98 payout, they are still making 2 cents on every dollar. The reason they have so many different varieties is generally to keep non gamblers (family members, friends, grandma, etc) sitting in the casino and spending a little money and feeling that they are winning something.
Even with a 98% guaranteed payout, with only $25.00 to work with it is very possible to go through the entire bankroll without seeing one win, even at the lower limits.
I’m not sure if the best odds are to take one spin on a $25.00 machine or 100 on a $0.25 machine but in either case the overall payout ratio only becomes important over a much larger sample of spins. You can hit 25.00 worth of losses in a row, or obviously might get back much more than 98% of your investment on the first spin.
The buyer of the coupon is by no means guaranteed a profit on their purchase, but they are getting a discounted chance at taking a gamble and hitting a jackpot. They are probably also accumulating player points at the casino that they can redeem for free play or goods and services, room discounts, etc.
If that player who bought your $25 plays a lot they are getting a deal, since they would play anyway, and assuming they play enough that they will get the average payout over time, your input included.
OTOH, since you don’t really play them, you sort of made out by cashing it out for a sure thing, but you have missed the opportunity to ‘play’ so missed out in the potential enjoyment and the potential to win something, if that is not a loss for you, you both benefited.
You got $20 that you didn’t have before: Win.
She paid $20 for a coupon for playing a game of chance:
possible enormous win (very unlikely)
possible win of more than $20 (unlikely)
possible break even (unlikely)
possible payoff of between $25-$20 (about even money)
possible payoff of less than $20 (likely), i.e. LOSS.
The state sets minimum payouts, but in Nevada and New Jersey, the competition causes the casinos to crank up the payout percentage. However, these percentages refer to the payout of their machines over a large period of time. As the numbers that come up are generated by computer chips - random number generators - and as the casinos are not required to tell you what any particular machine will pay, you made a wise investment. She did not. And while she MAY break the bank, this is about odds, and hers are pretty dim. p.s. there is no optimal slot machine strategy. They are simply games of chance and you cannot beat them.
How was this measured? At what point could you cash out? Was it a certain amount of credits played?
For instance if it was a 1cent machine did you have to bet 2500 credits before you could cash out?
Basically, yes. If you activate Free Play, you have to cycle through that amount before you can cash out. This usually leaves you with a little cash you didn’t have before.
I have regularly read posts of people winning $1000 (for example) in Free Play and converting it into $300-$500 cash out.
If she was going to play the slots anyway and was prepared to pay over $20 as a minimum, then she got to play $25 worth of slots for $20. In terms of entertainment value, she came out ahead. She got $5 more worth of play time than she would have with the $20 she had.
Went to Vegas a couple weeks ago, I assume the Atlantic City slots are similar. There are so many freaking ways to play those things now, I’m not sure it’s humanly possible to figure out “optimum” betting strategy.
One big thing I noticed was that just about all the slots nowadays are penny slots, and yet none of them are penny slots. It’s one cent per credit, but then you have to select the number of win lines you want to play–most seemed to have 20-40 lines, saw one with 99. Then you selected how many credits you wanted to put per line. To win the big jackpot you need to play max credits, and that was often in the 300-400 range. $25 doesn’t seem like enough cushion for a poor streak at $3-4 per spin.
I usually did my playing in $20 increments, playing max lines but one credit per line. While I rarely came out ahead, I at least seemed to lose most slowly with that strategy, and the Airplane!-based slot machines were amusing enough to keep me entertained.
This is the attitude one must take in order to enjoy/tolerate spending time in casinos. Those companies are in business to take in more money than they give out, hence, virtually no bet at the machines will pay over 100% (although some video poker machines will pay at about 99.5% if played max bets and played perfectly). “Lose more slowly” is a great motto. Mrs. CC loves the casinos. I go to keep her company (and to keep her from losing the rent), and I kill time playing the machines, hoping to lose as slowly as possible.
I gamble a fair amount. I don’t have any delusions about “beating the house”. My typical metric is - I started with X dollars, played for Y hours, and came out with Z dollars above/below what I started with.
If Z > X, hooray! Good night!
If Z = X, well, I had some fun!
If Z < Y, I figure out the “hourly cost” and compare it to things like a nice dinner or a movie. If it’s comparable, again, I still had a good time.
/That said, wouldn’t be caught dead playing slots. No skill at all. That’s an old lady’s game
//Really, really hurting for online poker since FTP got busted. Why don’t they just regulate and tax it and let us play?
To the OP, I would like to know if the sign said UP TO 98% payout.
Yes. Most machines average 98%… over the lifetime of the machine. You will more than likely give up, or run out of money, long before you get your 98% back. [Hitting a Jackpot, notwithstanding].
While I have never tried it first hand, I have heard that higher stakes machines do have better odds. I would assume that the “math” used here is not drastically different from penny and nickel slots. Better odds, not BEST odds. Then again, with that much money it can afford to payout more often. Just not enough to cover the bet you put in for the spin.
That’s what bugs me about slot machines, too - when I find a machine at the wall of a pub or similar, although there is some fine print on what combination wins what amount of points, I have not found a way to figure out beforehand if I will even get money back in case of win or simply assembling points, or whether I can stop the wheels when I want or the machine stops them regardless. Figuring out a good strategy is hopeless.
This means I have no desire at all to play when I don’t even understand the rules of the game.
If the machines have an average payout of, say 95%, then you could expect (in the technical sense) $23.75 from your coupon. But you probably won’t get anything if you bet it all on one throw. If you play one cent 2500 times, you will likely get something close to that $23.75, but your arm will be ready to fall off. Take the $20 and count yourself ahead.
My mother used to take a bus to Atlantic City from time-to-time. The RT fare from Philly was $15 and some casino would give her $15 in quarters when she got off the bus. She took the $15 and enjoyed a day on the boardwalk, courtesy of the casino.
