small roommate issue.. ideas please

In My Humble Opinion
1

This past summer I moved into an apartment from another apartment across town. I have a very diverse group of friends. We party and hang out a lot together and to me they’re like family.

I moved into my apartment before my two roommates did by a couple of weeks. I was taking summer classes and they came up at the beginning of the fall semester. In the time between I hung out with my friends at my place.

Now back to my diverse group of friends. I know communists, socialists, anarchists, hardcore republicans and hardcore democrats. Among all my friends I would say I am probably one of the most liberal democrats. (I’m just talking about political beliefs at the moment because that is relevent to the issue).

I am also friends with two Nazis. Now before anyone goes “OMMYGODHESANAZI!” I gotta let you know some stuff about them. The first I met early in the summer and she is a great person. I knew her as a person before I knew her political beliefs. She never brings them up (actually neither of them do) unless you ask them a question about their beliefs (they’re not up yelling in people’s faces about the pure race). I never thought I’d be hanging out and partying with people who have such polar views to my own, but she is a really nice person. Neither is violent about their beleifs (in fact we both have a good friend that is gay, and we’re all good friends).

Now let me introduce you to the second nazi. Again, he’s a good guy. Just as the girl he does not come out and rant about his political belefs and how the gays and the blacks are evil or anything. He’s really just a nice normal guy. He knows I disagree with him and we joke around with each other on our political belefs.

Lastly is the issue I’m having trouble with. My roommates heard around that our place is thought to be full of Nazis. Ok, that doesn’t sound like a good reputation to have around campus. So they want to get rid of that connotation. They asked me to ask my friend to leave, the girl. The small girl who never is a problem and is always nice. The other guy is just as nice and respectful. I am more friends with the girl because I’ve known her for months. The other guy, (again, a very nice person) I’ve known since about when the guys came up for the fall semester. Not as good a friend to me as the girl, but to my roommates, he’s more of a friend. They want me to kick out the Nazi girl who doesn’t even look at all nazi and never mentions it while her friend that she introduced us to can stay. Oh, he’s a 200 something pound guy covered in nazi tattoos. AGAIN, he’s a nice guy, they both are, but I don’t think that everyone else will be getting as much of a “nazi vibe” off of my good friend compared to that of the guy, another good friend of mine.

Anyway, my roommates are my good friends too and I want to make sure we have a good living environment and are all in agreement on such major issues.

Any ideas?

2

Seems to me that your roommates are well within their rights to ask you not to bring some of your friends around. They live there, your friends do not. I would certainly make the same request if I were in the same position, and I’d be outright pissed off if a roommate of mine tried to argue that I was being unreasonable in not welcoming Nazis into my home.

If you want to continue to hang out with them, well, whatever floats your boat. But you should respect the wishes of those you chose to live with, and either go to your friends’ apartments or find a place on your own where you can make your own rules.

3

Just out of curiosity, Ravenman, would you feel that the roommates were well within their rights to request that clayton not bring his friends around if his friends were black? gay? Jewish?

I agree, “nice Nazi” is pretty much an oxymoron, and I agree that his roommates are right to be skeeved – but am interested to know where you’d draw the line.

4

Are they Illinois Nazis? I hate Illinois Nazis.
I’m not trying to start a debate. You put this in IMHO so here is my opinion. Its up to you to decide how humble it is. Being a Nazi is not a valid political view point. It is either a way to make those around you shocked and uncomfortable (mission accomplished). Or it is a way to hide abhorant ideas behind a fake philosophy. If your friends try and tell you that the “party” has changed since '45 just look around the internet and find out what they stand for now. If your friends believe in one tenth of what the Nazi “party” stands for then they are not nice people. I can’t blame your roommates. They seem to be the nice people here. If you tried bringing Nazis into my house I wouldn’t be so nice. In fact I am really puzzled by your reaction.

5

I don’t think I made the issue clear enough… None of us have any problem with their personal belefs. We don’t agree with them, but we agree with their right to have those opinions. We continue to hang out with them because they are in fact nice people. As I’ve said several times, they are nonviolent people with a belief of their own. My roommates don’t like the idea that people think this is a Nazi house. Understandable. They’re friends with both of the people as well. They want me to kick out the girl because they arn’t friends with her nearly as much as they are with the guy (again, who, although he doesn’t push his views on people or even talk about them, LOOKS like a Nazi, tattoos and all. The girl does not).

They want me to kick out my friend who has the exact same beliefs as my other friend who is also their good friend. Neither is violent, neither pushes their views on people, and I want to kick out neither.

So we’re keeping the guy who is a Nazi and looks like a Nazi even if he’s a good guy (which he is) but we’re getting rid of the person who is a Nazi and doesn’t look at all like a skinhead. No tattoos, no shirts with Nazi slogans, nothing. If the reason we’re getting rid of people is because of the vibe they give off to others about our apartment we should probably get rid of the guy who gives off that vibe… but he’s my roommates’ friends.

I think that puts it a bit clearer.

6

Your roommates are hypocrites. Pure and simple. If they are so concerned about the flat’s reputation neither of the pair should be welcome.

7

I agree with peri - they’re being hypocrites, especially since you’d think that the talk about it being a “Nazi house” would be from seeing the big guy with Nazi tattoos hang out there. I doubt most people would even suspect that the girl was one, or have much chance to find out that she is one, if she’s that “inobtrusive” about it.

8

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Wow. :rolleyes: You do know what a Nazi is don’t you? Its not a political party. Its a philosophy which promotes hate, violence and killing of anyone who isn’t white or who doesn’t conform to the ideal which they believe. How could anyone not have a problem with their beliefs? I’m done I don’t want this to get booted out of where you placed it. If the only problem anyone has is how others will perceive the house then you all deserve each other.

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[QUOTE=clayton_e]
I don’t think I made the issue clear enough… None of us have any problem with their personal belefs.
<snip>

[QUOTE]

Perhaps you should.

10

Loach… He’s going… Going… Going…WAY OFF TOPIC!! GONE!! OUT OF THE FRIGGIN’ PARK!
I actually collect propaganda, study politics of all kinds constantly (its somewhat of an obsession to me).

I study what I disagree with. What is wrong with knowing someone who is racist, especially when they NEVER bring it up unless I ask them questions about their belief?

I am the most liberal person in the place, actually I’d be pretty hard pressed to find anyone more liberal on campus. I absolutely do not agree with their beliefs, but as long as they’re not harassing people, hurting people, or doing anything else along those lines then WHAT THE F*CK EVER! They are nice people. Sounds strange, A year ago when I wasn’t yet in college I would think that opinion was crazy. I’ve met a lot of people since then and while my own beliefs have been fortified by what I’ve seen I also enjoy being around people that, you know… Don’t agree with me on every point. We are all friends with both them and gay people who hang out here. They’re good friends with them too, so they’re not extremist psychos. So… I should simply tell people that are my friends and that I knew as good friends before I knew them as Nazis that… I hate them because of their views in our open society? REEEEAAALLLYYY rational. I know a few extreme republicans too. I disagree with them but they’re some of my best friends.

But anyway lets STICK TO THE FRIGGIN’ TOPIC. What should I do about this issue with my roommates?

11

Turn it into a joke.

Any time they bring anyone over, loudly announce to them that everyone is talking about how your place is full of X, X being some group that their friends may or may not belong to, and tell them they need to kick that person out.

For example, if a roommate brings home a member of the opposite sex: “You guys, everyone is saying how incredibly heterosexual this place is. It’s gotta stop. She/he has to leave.”

It doesn’t even have to be people. “Your backpack is red. It’s making everyone think we’re all commies. And yours (pointing to other roommate) is black. It’s making everyone think we’re a bunch of goths.”

Make a big poster that says “Today this apartment is:” and then a big list of random political, ethnic, sexual and religious groups, and a stick on arrow that points to one of them. Put it on the fridge door. Move the arrow around while making tsk tsking sounds and looking visitors up and down.

Though maybe this is your roommates pathetic, though well meaning, attempt at preventing you from hooking up with a girl who thinks she’s a nazi. She may be cute as hell, but it will end in horrible, bitter, angry tears. I speak from experience here.

12

CRAP ok, just realized my “Enter” key doesn’t work at the moment for some reason, so this post will probably look odd. Buck, thanks for the ideas. I also wanted to mention that neither of us were trying to hook up at all or anything, so that wasn’t any part in why I’m angry about the whole thing.

13

Nope. I’d think they were being jerks. People choose to be Nazis, people don’t choose to be gay, black, or Jewish. I’d have the same advice if the friends were simply messy people who didn’t clean up after themselves, but I wouldn’t say it if the friends were handicapped.

Back to the larger question, I’m afraid that I’m at the limit of my understanding of how one can reconcile “very nice person” with an ideology of violence and hate, so I’m at a loss for what advice to give. If Hitler and Goebbels were in my living room, I think it’d make zero sense to kick one one and not the other; I have no idea why the same rule wouldn’t apply to two of their followers.

At least clayton_e is consistent in his principles, in that he wants both of them to stay. Other than that, I think the whole situation is nuts.

14

I think a whole bunch of people mentioned in the OP must be half insane but whatever. Well I’m sure Goebbels was a very nice man too. It makes up for a lot now, don’t it.

Anywhoo, as far as your situation, have you tried asking your roommates why they want the girl to go so that you don’t have a “Nazi house” but they don’t want the guy to? Perhaps they are scared of him? Or his likely similarly tattooed friends?

15

sweet! The enter key works again!

Ah, this is the point I forgot to address earlier…

I personally do not care what others think. I don’t change the people I hang out with if they’re honest, nice, people who believe in something that I don’t just to try and impress the average. My roommate wanted to kick people out who are other friends of the nazis because he heard people talking about how they thought she was one. I told him that was most definately not going to happen and that it is absolutely stupid to kick people out who never ever bring up the topic of race or hate because of what “they” all think.

We don’t have these notecards attached to us in our place that say “Nazi”, “Communist”, “Conservative”, “Liberal” etc… We just hang out. We party. We talk about music, we play beer pong, we do what friends do in college. I’ve never seen these people hurt, harm, insult personally, or do anything negative to anyone, and I’m not going to persecute anyone for their beliefs. I DON’T AGREE WITH THEM, but if i kicked them and anyone else that was not exactly like myself out of my apartment it’d be a bit boring.

Well I guess I’ll talk to my roommates about this. Thanks for the suggestions people.

To avoid this going to the pit (if left around long enough I don’t doubt it would), mods, please lock this.

16

While I mostly agree with you, I’m inclined to cut them a lot of slack based on the fact that they’re in college. Trying on crazy-ass identities and belief systems is pretty common. As long as they’re nice and non-violent, I can see how the OP can just look past it.

I have a couple of good friends who were anarchists for a while in college. They didn’t actually try to overthrow the government; mostly, they just read books and went to a few rallies. They got over it, and I think the experience has made them more insightful and open to new ideas.

17

Oh, I should answer this before it gets locked…

We met him through her. We’re all good friends with each other but he knows my roommates much better than my roommates know her. I know her better than him, but I know him pretty well too.

He doesn’t have any tattooed friends that come over, him and her are the extent of the nazi group that are here. Nobody here is afraid of him, but when people have gotten close to a fight in the back yard he’s been out there in a second to stop it. Good guy to have around if things get crazy.

18

You’re at SUNY Plattsburgh, right, Clayton? (I’m asking because it’s really relevant to my answer.)

19

No, he isn’t. You made the choice to be friends with people with a thoroughly contemptible ethical philosophy because of some bullshit moral relativism that you mistake for “tolerance.” Your roommates are absolutely right to demand that said despicable scumbags not violate your home, and you should be fucking ashamed of yourself for associating with them, no matter how “nice” they are.

You’re a fucking collaberator to an imaginary occupation.

20

Oh, please. People choose to be Nazis, they don’t choose the color of their skin. It is correct to judge a person by their actions and behavior, it is incorrect to judge them based on their appearance.