Smoking Award is Stupid

The BBQ Pit
1

I don’t know if I’m the first one to start a thread on this, but the tobacco companies just had a 145 Billion (give or take) judgement against them in Florida.

I think smoking is evil. I think tobacco companies are evil. But anyone who started smoking after 1950 knew that smoking was going to kill them. Why are the companies responsible for individual stupidity?

I understand that part of the argument is that the tobacco companies lied about the dangers of smoking, and they should pay for lying. But despite what they told us, we knew the dangers.

I just don’t get the logic. If Toyota told us for years that it would be ok for us to suck off the tailpipe of their latest Camry, would we believe them? Would we be able to sue them because “they said it was safe”?

I suppose this could go to Great Debates, but right now I’m focusing more on my disgust with the lack of personal responsibility this judgement projects, and interested to see what other people think about this triumph of justice.

2

I seem to remember that part of the justification for the settlement was a change in the chemical composition of the cigs to make them even more addictive. Even though people might have known the dangers, it was much harder to quit.

Yeah yeah yeah, I know this is the plot of The Insider. But as far as I recall, it is based in some fact. Someone want to fill in the blanks?

MR

3

The jury might as well have made the award a kajillion dollars. It’s just as likely that the tobacco industry will pay that fictitious amount.

What’s the point? The only time a court ruling is what it appears at face value is when I get a traffic ticket. When it’s some company with a lot of money, it never seems to mean anything.

ATTGuy: Can you think of one other industry out there that is allowed to manufacture a product that is inherently harmful to people? Don’t say alcohol. Drinking in moderation doesn’t necessarily cause health problems. No level of cigarette smoking, however, can be considered safe by reputable medical standards.

Big Tobacco knew their products were killing people, and they chose to cover it up and lie for decades.

I love those “new face of Phillip Morris” TV ads that are running all the time now. They never talk about the tobacco division, and focus on caring employees mentoring kids and delivering meals to homebound seniors.

These people knowingly contributed to the untimely demise of millions and millions of our fathers, mothers, grandparents and children. Generations of Americans, as well as people worldwide. Yeah, what caring, folksy-folks.

A question comes to mind, after watching those post-court press conferences: is there a lower, more evil class of people on the planet today than tobacco industry corporate lawyers?

Standing up there so smugly, fully aware that the award was meaningless. Basically goading the state of Florida, saying they would have to hire 100 new judges to conduct all of the necessary cigarette-related trials, and even then it would take about 75 years. And, when that was done, then they would appeal.

They’ll be sitting at the head table in hell’s banquet room, with Lucifer, Hitler and Stalin.

Oh, I forgot. Satan is a non-smoker now.

4

Tobacco companies knowingly put cancer causing poison in the cigs to make them more addictive/to sell more.

Not only the smokers were hurt. Their product has damaged generations of nonsmokers - asmtha anyone?

They deserve to rot in hell. And until that day, they deserve financial ruin.

5

AND you know what else???

Theuy should be made to tour the world cleaning up those FILTHY DISGUSTING BUTTS!

6

I doubt the big tobacco companies will ever pay the amount awarded. They are going to tie up the courts for decades and our tax dollars for the courts costs as well. Cigarettes were deadly and addictive before the big tobacco companies starting adding chemicals, I think the cigarettes are even more deadly and addicting now than they used to be.

Cigarettes stink, ashtrays stink, people who smoke cigarettes clothing, cars and houses stink too. The detrius from smokers covers parking lots, sidewalks, roadways and any place a smoker has been.

The habit is expensive while people smoke and expensive when they get the cancer. I would encourage all smokers to give up the habit and non-smokers to support the quiting smokers.

7

Not true. My doctor told me that smoking one pack a week probably wouldn’t be harmful. So either you’re wrong, or I need to get a new doctor.

True, but more deaths are caused by alcohol use than anything else. Cigarettes kill you. Alcohol makes you kill others. But I don’t think alcohol companies should pay for those deaths.

I hate those fuckin’ tobacco companies. And I’d love to see them pay. But unfortunately, I don’t think people who started smoking after the surgeon general’s warning have any grounds to sue. That’s not justice. Karma maybe, but not justice.

8

Tobacco companies actively try to addict children to smoking before they reach college (and become far less susceptible to peer pressure and advertising). They actively downplay the enormous risks of being a nicotine addict. They have actively fought off thousands of lawsuits by people who started smoking before and after the 1965 Surgeon Generals warning was released. Unlike alcohol which can help reduce heart attack risk if used in moderation, or fatty foods that contain calories which sustain our lives, tobacco use has NO helpful effects. It serves no purpose. The world would be better off it were completely banned and treated as a controlled substance. The tobacco companies have profited from slowly killing people and should be made to pay for all the damage their products have caused.

If you disagree with me then, please, take the next hour and tell us how people would be worse off if tobacco were outlawed (and don’t mention taxes or tobacco farmers or jobs or any of that economic horseshit, it has already been proven that smoking causes far more costs to the public in the form of medical expenses and lost wages than can ever be recouped in taxes or other financial benefits. There is no profit in mass murder).

9

I think all drugs, including tobacco, should be legal. Yeah, it can be some fucking awful shit. But it’s my right to kill myself in whatever way I please.

10

CDC Tobacco Overview

Quoting the page: “Each year, smoking kills more people than AIDS, alcohol, drug abuse, car crashes, murders, suicides, and fires—combined!” If you want numbers: tobacco-related causes account for more than 400,000 deaths annually in the United States.

Tobacco is a product that has NO purpose other than the perpetuation of its own use. It does not nourish, benefit, or otherwise improve its user in any way (okay, it does have some mild stimulant effect, but the body quickly accustoms itself to the stimulant and reduces or eliminates its effects). Tobacco companies have increased the addictive qualities of their products, making them harder to resist and deadlier. That, combined with marketing aimed at young persons, far exceeds “predatory business practices” in my book; that’s pure ghoulism, feeding off the living dead.

Yes, people should be responsible for their own actions. The distinction here, though, is that the tobacco companies didn’t just make their product tastier, or shinier, or safer, thus making customers WANT to buy it more; they found a way to supercede mere want and FORCE customers to buy their product or endure harsher withdrawal.

It’s readily apparent to me where the evil is.

11

That’s a pretty tricky statistic. “Tobacco related causes” doesn’t say much. But I’ll concede that point, since it’s rather obvious that tobacco kills people.

We’re in total agreement there. A more evil person you will probably never find. I’m just not sure if you can convict them under the laws we have in place. But I don’t know, I s’pose we’d have to ask DrainBead.

12

I have a different spin on this.
The award is stupid. There can be no doubt that the only winners in such a suit will be the lawyers. The 700,000 smokers named in the suit will collect little or nothing.
The part of the smoking debate that bothers me though is this: The money from the recent tobacco settlement is to be used by the states to discourage people from smoking. The states collect this money over a period of twenty years. If the programs to stop smoking work, where will the money come from tho complete the payoff for the states? Catch-22. The states can’t try too hard or they will kill the goose that laid the golden egg. This settlement will never be paid because pressure will be brought to bear to keep the tobacco money flowing into the government.

The same pressures by lawyers are already being applied to the gun industry and just wait, Big Alcohol will be the next target. Followed by Big Auto and Big Fast-Food. (“We didn’t know that a case of Bud a day/driving too fast/Eating 17 Big Macs could hurt us”)

Sorry I rambled. I’ve been driving too fast while drinking beer and eating a cheeseburger. Anybody spare a cig? (Don’t make me shoot you!)

13

Not in Michigan. It’s being used to fund scholarships for high school seniors who score well on a somewhat controversial, relatively new aptitude test the state developed.

People were complaining that there was no reason for students to study and score well on the test, and a bad score might work against them. Poof! The state invents this scholarship, using the tobacco settlement money.

Sure it doesn’t make sense. That’s our governor for ya.

But that’s another rant for another day.

14

Perhaps you should avoid going to doctors who received their medical degree from a school where the dean is Sally Struthers.

15

I notice a couple of the same posters here as there, but just so you know, there’s much the same thread going on in GD: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=30871

16

Quote>>>> Tobacco is a product that has NO purpose other than the perpetuation of its own use. It does not nourish, benefit, or otherwise improve its user in any way (okay, it does have some mild stimulant effect,>>>>>>>>quote

The same could be said for twinkies.

I find that the award is ludicrous. I hope I’m spelling that word correctly. My perspective is that of a former 3 pack-a-day smoker, smoke free for over 10 years.

Yes, I smoked. And I knew the risks involved. And so did everyone else who started smoking within the last 30 years. Think about it. There’s a warning on the pack. There’s a warning on all cig print advertising. There have been non-stop, annoying tv spots with self-righteous pukes telling us how bad it is. Our parents, teachers, and health care professionals have told us how bad it is.

My point is simple. If you smoke, you deserve what you get. It doesn’t matter that big Tobacco lied. We didn’t believe them. You rolled the dice.

Hey, I’m not a fan of big Tobacco, but lets not forget that no one has been forced to smoke. As for the more powerfully addictive argument, people can still quit if they want to.

And if tobacco is that damn bad, outlaw the friggin’ things and be done with the debate.

17

My own feelings were made clear in the other thread (oops… got me a warning from the mods, I did… ::sheepish grin::…).

Here’s my thoughts: You make a bad product, and lie about it, you get shmacked. It’s that simple.

How many people have died 'cuz of tobacco? Millions, at least. 146 billion? Divide that by… oh… let’s be very conservative and say 5 million. That’s just under $30,000.

A persons life is worth less than $30,000?