I think perhaps you’re being a little harsh. Look up the definition of “phobia”.
During garter snake sunbathing season, I frequently find myself a recipient of gift snakes from my cats who bring them into the house and lay them at my feet. My cats take good care of me and only bring me the freshest, most wiggly snakes, which if I don’t act quickly, escape to the snake mummy sanctuary underneath my refrigerator. I’ve found that a large grocery bag and a spatula to scoop them with works really well. If it’s an especially tiny snake, chop sticks also work just fine. I used to be lazy and just throw them over the fence into my neighbor’s yard because they don’t have pets and seldom use the yard. But I have since found out that these people are terrified of most animals and of nature in general (why didn’t they just get a condo instead of a house?), so I’m going to find a better releasing spot. Actually, I think that the original letter probably was written by my neighbor - who only goes out into the yard once a week to mow the lawn.
I hate snakes as much as the next person. (I’m entitled, since I was attacked by a rattler when I was 5.) The only thing I can think of that is worse than finding a live snake in my yard is finding two halves of a dead snake in my yard.
-k-
Karen Lingel, Physicist and Penguinist
Doug! THANK YOU!!! For your, rational, humane and informed reply to the mower of garter snakes.
IMO this man should check out his state and local wildlife laws. In some states it is illegal to harm any wildlife except under very special circumstances. If these snakes happen to be on the “endangered” list, interfering with them in any way is probably illegal.
Relocating the animals is very problematical. In some locales it is illegal. Also, there is always a chance that the relocated snake may be carrying diseases or parasites that it’s new “neighbors” have no resistance to. Relocated animals often do not do well in there new “homes.”
If it is legal to capture the snakes, a better solution than relocating them would be to find a local reptile club or herpetologists’ society whose members may be willing to accept the animals and place them in adoptive homes. Such groups can usually be found on the net or through the reptile departments of zoos or natural history museums.
Anyone who does not want wildlife in his yard should make the yard “inhospitable” to the wildlife. The snakes are coming there for something they need: food, water or shelter. Many of the animals snakes prey on are attracted to food and water left out for pets. Avoid leaving such an attractive buffet out, especially at night. Try also to reduce “shelter” as much as is feasible.
I have known several ophidophobes. None of these people have wished snakes to be killed. They just want the snakes to stay away from them. Some are in fact adamant that the snakes not be harmed.
The people who want snakes killed, usually are frightened because they are misinformed about the true nature of snakes.
MomCat
[[Relocating the animals is very problematical. In some locales it is illegal. Also, there is always a chance that the relocated snake may be carrying diseases or parasites that it’s new “neighbors” have no resistance to. Relocated animals often do not do well in there new “homes.”]]
Good point. Herpetologists go nuts when they hear of people releasing reptile species in other areas.
Okay so which is it:
We can’t kill the snake cause killing anything is wrong
or
We must kill the snake cause it is a murderous beast feasting on insects like crazy?
Surely if killing is absolutely wrong then when the snake has dinner it is absolutely wrong as well. Hence, by destroying one life we are saving many others. Therefore, the cretin on the lawnmower is taking a correct and justifiable action.
Remember, never shower or wash your clothes, you will be destroying valuable lives. Also be sure to swat spiders, snakes, frogs and any other predators you come across. Or is everyone really more concerned with the motivation of the lawn mower riding serial killer?
Well, looks like this has stirred up some noise. Maybe I can tie things up.
(1) Snakes have pain receptors. They can, therefore, feel pain. End of issue. I didn’t realize it would be necessary for me to spell this out.
(2) If they are indeed garter snakes, relocation is not an issue, nor are they on any endangered lists. They are common and mobile, so unless this guy drives a few hundred miles, he isn’t likely to be contaminating any snake gene pools.
(3) Chris wrote: “Surely if killing is absolutely wrong then when the snake has dinner it is absolutely wrong as well. Hence, by destroying one life we are saving many others. Therefore, the cretin on the lawnmower is taking a correct and justifiable action.”
The key word, which you use yourself, is “justifiable”. A snake killing insects by feeding on them is justifiable (it eats to survive, and has no options). Interfering with this part of the food web is NOT (unless, of course, this fellow were eating the snakes he killed, which would be different, since the snake population is presumably not threatened by the small number he kills). Killing is NOT an absolute wrong, from an objective point of view. Killing the way this fellow does, for the reason he does, is wrong.
Peace,
Thanks, Doug. I only have one further question: what’s a pain receptor?
Rich
Pain = French for bread
Receptor = from the Latin
Re = again
cept = seven
or = masculine ending
Thus, a Pain Receptor is seven loaves of bread, again, for a total of 14. Hence the expression, “baker’s dozen”
I can’t believe how blown out and emotional this debate
on snake killing has become.
I thought that guy was thoughtless at the most.
Garter snakes are not an endangered species.
I can see that quite a few of the respondees have been
convinced by those PETA fanatics that anything done to animals by Man is wrong.
Face it, life is horribly unfair, Nature is cruel by definition.
When a hawk swipes up a running squirrel, don’t you think
that the squirrel is “traumatized”!
When water buffalo migrate across a river in the Serengeti and
the alligators “do their thing”, is that cruel?
I’m reminded by the story about the two harp seals that were
“detarred” from an oil spill and released, only to be
eaten up immediately by a killer whale.
I am not for needless cruelty to animals, but some is
necessary and needed.
Using mice in AIDS research, monkeys in medical.
A lot of these post smack of the “Druid” mentality,
“Hug Trees, Sacrifice People”, it conceals a thinly
disguise hatered and contempt for Mankind.
The PETA idiots have managed to ban the sale
and slaughter of live poultry/turtles in ChinaTown,
don’t some people have the right to food they consider
fresh? The PETA fanatics have also harassed the homes/children of researcher that use animals, and gotten away with it.
PETA lives in a fantasy World where there is no killing
or cruelty.
Face it, just by existing, everyone is consuming resources and
killing animals or living off things that were gained by killing animals, (shoes,vaccines)
Get real,folks.
bdsnake
Hi, bdsnake. First things first: I’m a “PETA idiot.” Next: You’re an asshole.
Now then:
Explain again how animals seeking food relates to humans running over snakes with lawnmowers? Oh, that’s right–it doesn’t.
Yes, that was very funny when I saw it on “The Simpsons.”
I’m confused–which needless cruelty is needed?
Your opinion is becoming less and less valid and more hysterical and silly with every line.
Explain what that has to do with running over animals with a lawn mower, please.
Please document this. Provide a cite from a major daily newspaper.
Sorry, no.
I remember hearing about a old local law (somewhere on the East Coast) that made it illegal to “kick the heads off snakes.” Apparently the snakes would stick their heads up between the wooden slats of the boardwalk, and people were kicking them so hard that the heads would come off. I believe that the law was enacted because the severed snakes were leaving quite a mess and people were slipping and falling on the blood and guts.
Ah, I was wondering when Phil was going to join in on this one! 
Dear PL
I’m glad you seconded my term for PETA members as “idiots”.
If you really read my post, I thought that guy was thoughtless.
PLD:
Explain again how animals seeking food relates to humans running over snakes with lawnmowers? Oh, that’s right–it doesn’t.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The point is that nature is cruel; anyway, garter snakes are not endangered. Do you want to kill that guy because he is a Human?
PLD:
Yes, that was very funny when I saw it on "The Simpson’s
>>>>>>>>
Moreover, it happens in real life.
>>>>>>>>>
PLD:
I’m confused–which needless cruelty is needed?
>>>>>>>>>>>
I meant cruelty, like butchering animals, using mice/monkeys to
experiment with vaccines to prevent Aids etc.
You know, to prevent cruelty to Humans.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
PLD:
Your opinion is becoming less and less valid and more hysterical and silly with every line.
>>>>>>>>
Nice try, I must really be hitting close to home on PETAs ridiculous position.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
PLD:
Explain what that has to do with running over animals with a lawn mower, please.
>>>>>>>>>>
No, it actually has to do with the complete idiocy of PETA, which is worse than that unthinking Guy who ran over the snake. A simple discussion with the Guy would probably dissuade him from doing it again. Unless you PETA fools want to chant and demonstrate in front of his house in your self-righteous indignation.
PLD:
Please document this. Provide a cite from a major daily newspaper.
>>>>>>>
Lets see, a website from one Animal Rights Fanatic groups encouraging vandalism.
http://members.aol.com/novenaann/organiz2.htm
Another of various harassments by Animal Rights Fanatics. http://www.animalrights.net/ar_news/1999/arnews_09_07_1999.html#3
Let’s see, some articles…
Cherfus, J. (1990): Two bomb attacks on scientists in the U.K. Science 248, 1485
http://www.animalrights.net/ar001.html http://www.animalrights.net/ar002.html
Is this enough?
BTW the reason that you are alive is due to vaccines developed by experimenting on mice before using it on Humans.
Mice are not an endangered species as far as I know.
And animal experimentation is still the only way to develop and test vaccines for Sickle Cell and Aids, as computer models can’t hack it yet. Peta is not opposed to research into vaccines that will prevent these ailments, right?
Well what World does PETA live in?
All vegie, no pets(no guide dogs for the blind),no horseback riding,hampered medical research ,no butchering of any animals,etc.
No thanks, I like being vaccinated and free of Polio/Measles and eating Meat.
bdsnake
Dear PLD
you PETA fanatics are so easy to rile up.
Disagree with any of them and watch them get up from their meal of Tofu and rice and self-righteously rant for hours. You people to me are folks who tried to end poverty/racism, and ended up with Animals,cause they don’t talk back or mug their "saviors
bdsnake
The topic here is about the question on killing snakes, whether they feel pain, etc. If you want to flame each other, I suggest you please open a new topic in the BBQ Pit. We’re getting kind of close to a fuzzy line here, and I’d like the discussion in this topic to stay on this side of that line. The BBQ Pit Forum is for the stuff on the other side of the line.
– CKDextHavn, Administrator
Hmmm, let’s see…your first link is to an organization that clearly is not PETA. Your second link contains writings from writers who clearly disagree with any pro-animal activities, so use the word “terrorism” to describe protests and letters, and describes activities by other organizations that are also not PETA. Your third link attempts to establish a direct link between PETA and ALF (They accept their advertising? So what? That doesn’t make them responsible for their activities any more than that makes Rolling Stone responsible for the actions of Phillip Morris.) So, you couldn’t find a cite for any “terrorist actions” committed by PETA. Just as I thought.
Now, on to other matters–the fact that I am a member of PETA does not force me to accept every plank in their platform. Just as their are pro-choice and anti-choice Republicans, PETA members need not back every activity and thought spoken by Ingrid Newkirk.
As regards your sad little laundry list, I am opposed to neither pet ownership (I have 3 cats) nor horseback riding. I am undecided on certain issues of medical research. I am absolutely opposed to non-FDA-mandated tests of consumer products and cosmetics. I am also absolutely opposed to most of the so-called “psychological” research committed on animals. You have a problem with that? Tough.
I’d still like an explanation of what a “pain receptor” is. Is it chemical? Is it a type of nerve? Is there some evidence that pain receptors in snakes are analogous to – and react with the brain in the same way as – pain receptors in humans?
Rich
A pain receptor is an interface between the nervous system and the local tissue. As cellular damage occurs, secondary to the impact of, say, a lawnmower blade, the damaged cells release chemicals such as prostagladins which then bind on specific sites on the terminal branch of sensory nerves, which, in turn causes them to depolarize and signal the central nervous system. All of our sensory organs have such an interface at which physical or chemical information is converted to a nervous signal.
Since a snake will obviously and aggresively move away from a noxious stimulus I think arguing over the “quality” of their experience is bullshit.
Larry
In regard to snakes feeling pain, it would probably depend on how close to the head the cleaving trauma occurs. Very close to the head and the brain will die in a very short time (seconds, at most, I would guess). The brain can’t live and function without blood. The remains of the body, however writhing in apparent pain, cannot feel pain. Pain is strictly a brain interpretation of a stimulus. The writhing motion reflects locally coordinated spinal cord reactions to the massive stimulus engendered by the trauma.
The two major medical ways to control pain during surgery are: 1) general anesthesia (deactivate the brain¹s ability to interpret pain stimuli); or, 2) local anesthesia (deactivate the pain receptors in the surgical area). In any case, the residual pain will return when the effect of the general or local anesthesia wears off. Then the patient can be given drugs which will interfere with the brain¹s ability to detect pain stimuli. Both morphine and cocaine (or derivatives) are good choices here.
As far as I can see (and as repugnant as the prospect is to me, personally) the most humane way to dispatch a snake would be to crush the head as quickly as possible (as with a hammer), thereby obviating any possible pain response in the brain.
If I had a snake in need of euthanasia, however, I would only employ such a method if it appeared to me that the animal was in excruciating pain at the time. If it was simply lethargic and obviously in an ³unconformable² terminal illness, I would take it to a veterinarian (many of whom have remarkable non-mammalian savvy) for a strong dose of lethal drugs.
Just my 2 cents worth.