My coworker RD is a really nice and fun guy. We talk about comic books, movies, and all sorts of fun stuff. He’s been working on a graphic novel about dinosaurs and he’s really talented.
The other day he invited me to his online bible study group. He and some other coworkers get together on Teams and discuss scripture.
What I said: “Thanks, but I’m not really a church guy. Sounds interesting though.”
What I didn’t say #1: “Thanks, but outside of work I’m a cynical jaded atheist asshole and the last thing I want to do is hang out online with a bunch of religious fanatics. The bible was written by goat farmers 2-3 thousand years ago, and religious leaders are all hypocrites and conmen who fuck altar boys.” There’s no way I want to alienate a nice guy like RD, and his intentions were good. It was nice of him to make the offer, and I’m not going to spit in his face.
What I didn’t say #2: “Don’t you realize we’re not supposed to promote religion or politics at work? I could report you to HR.” I don’t want to put him through that kind of shit storm. It’s not like he was trying to convert me or anything.
Then he added something interesting: most of the group are based in our London branch, and they come from all sorts of backgrounds: Catholic, Anglican, Greek Orthodox, and several others. O RLY? It would be interesting to hear European perspectives on scripture, not having to suffer through JAYSUS and HAIL FAR, and I get to listen to their cool accents.
So, I’m considering it, despite my contempt for religion…
No, I would not chance it. I might blurt out some of what’s in #1, or have to stifle myself until afterward when I could let it out in privacy (like passing gas).
I agree it’s polite to state your situation and leave it at that. A friend of mine is very Catholic, and if they bless me or whatever, I say Thank You, and if I am in his home and they want to say grace, I can join in - it doesn’t hurt me to be polite and respectful. He knows where I am and out of respect for him as a person we just avoid the religious talk. I think the same approach can work with your co-worker, as long as there is mutual respect.
Are there Bible study groups out there that would incorporate all the different versions of the Bible that this group mentioned would follow? For the most part, wouldn’t almost every session consist of the different members of the group arguing over different wording and/or different context of whatever is being studied that day?
Is your contempt for religion across the board, or is it limited to Christianity? Would you have the same attitude if a Jewish or Islamic group invited you to join in? (Although I’ll admit, such invitations might be much rarer.)
I think you need to pay attention to subtle cues here.
Nothing wrong with ‘studying’ the Bible. Indeed, every literate person should be familiar with the King James version as literature, and to be open to reading the works of other major religions, just as part of a rounded education.
But is the focus ‘study’ or an attempt at recruitment or conversion?
My question would be if it were really a Bible study group, or a group getting together to reassure themselves about how great the Bible is? How would they respond to requests for non-Biblical evidence for Biblical claims? How would they respond to requests to study the not so nice parts of the Bible (like the rules for slavery in Exodus) as opposed to the parts the preachers love to preach about?
It is amazing how little of the Bible the most religious people actually know.
I would never join a bible study group. And there’s no way in hell I’d join one that included coworkers.
Let’s say you joined, and then quit after a few sessions. It won’t look good for you (politically) at work. You would had been much better off having not joined in the first place.
It’s probably not a good idea to attend unless you have an actual interest in becoming more religious. If you come across as “a cynical jaded atheist”, then they’re going to think negatively about you and it will very likely affect how you are treated at work. That’s regardless of any rules about religion in the workplace. It’s just human nature. If the coworkers are getting together to talk about their enjoyment of [random hobby] and you think [random hobby] is stupid, don’t attend the meetings where they talk about how much they love [random hobby]. Unless you’re in agreement with your coworkers, there’s little to gain from discussing passionate topics with them like politics and religion.
I’ve been to some that allowed any version of the Bible. IDK how the cat LOL Bible would be received. I assume it would be an add curiosity at first but ware thin quickly. But yes sometimes the study would involve books that are not in all Bibles such as books from the Catholic Bible. On rare occasion non-canon books of the apocrypha are sometimes considered for reference, however source is normally protestant canon, but again sometimes those extra Catholic books/chapters.
No arguments, just that if the reading varies and a member wished to point out the difference they do. Usually a cooperative effort goes on discussing the meaning of both, or varied interpretations.
For many Christians (the one’s I encounter) the Bible is not an authority, but just human witnesses to Jesus (even the OT). The authority is in God alone. The Bible is more of a text book, the teacher is God (though the Holy Spirit). So arguing about scripture is generally not fruitful.
Good point. Asimov wrote a great book on the Bible, and he was a non-believer. (Many common saying today come from the Bible, that could be a class all on it’s own). A good class on Comparative Religion is a good idea for most of us.
But yeah- with this you should not attend.
It was a nice gesture on his part, just say “No thanks” and move on with your life.
I think you correctly surmised that this board is the place to express your scorn, disdain, and mockery of this invitation.
To his face, a simple, “No, thanks” is sufficient, with no explanation or excuses. Don’t be drawn into a conversation about why you’re not interested. Because I’ll bet he isn’t really interested in your reasons.
I consider myself a fairly religious person and I would not be caught dead (or alive) accepting such an invitation.
BUT he did invite you to something benign that is meaningful to him and that he thought you might like, so there’s that. He didn’t, after all, invite you to a pedophile group that vivisects puppies and feeds the wriggling parts to crocodiles in its off hours, now did he?
IOW he wished you well.
So by all means, vent here at The Dope. This is why we’re here.
When it comes to Bible/Torah study, I am an utter snob. One of the rabbis at my synagogue is a complete ignoramus when it comes to Torah and their class is an embarrassment to anyone who knows kaddish from a knish. I’ve studied Torah in the past with a brilliant scholar and he ruined me for any lesser teacher.
But your workmate did wish you well. So take the invitation in the (Holy) Spirit in which it was offered and let it go at that.
Pretty much all the Bible study groups I’ve been part of over the years haven’t been about either recruitment or mutual reassurance over how great the Bible is, or arguing over different interpretations of a given text.
They’re about fellowship. You discuss a passage in the Bible together to find meaning in it, and to better understand and develop rapport with the other people in your group in the process.
Normally a Bible study group is studying a particular book of the Bible, so it isn’t like one gets to say, “how about let’s look at Judges 11 this week?” Typically either a group discusses one chapter of that book each week, or maybe the routine is to study a shorter passage, like the one in the lectionary, each week.
Actually saying “Thanks, but outside of work I’m a cynical jaded atheist who believes that the Bible was written by goat farmers 2-3 thousand years ago” is IMHO a pretty reasonable way to say No. It conveys the message that much as you and RD get along at work, you would not fit in at all well with a Bible study group such as this, and you’re doing him a favor by declining.
I’m a Christian, but have friends from all sorts of different religious and non-religious perspectives, and enjoy talking with them about life, the Universe, and everything. But I wouldn’t invite the non-religious or very differently religious friends to a Christian Bible study unless they expressed an interest in attending one.
One of the big divisions in forms of Christian worship is between liturgical and non-liturgical churches. In the former group (includes Catholic, Anglican/Episcopal, ELCA Lutheran, and I’d assume Greek Orthodox), the Scripture readings for each Sunday’s service are laid out on a schedule that repeats after every few years, so while ministers/priests/whatever are free to preach about whatever, the Scripture readings for that week give the preachers a source of material to preach about that changes from week to week.
Since it’s been a long time (at least forty years, come to think of it!) since I’ve attended a non-liturgical church on any regular basis, I confess I’ve lost track of what the parts are that “preachers love to preach about.” That’s more of a thing in non-liturgical churches like Methodists, Southern Baptists, Pentecostals, and non-denominational congregations.
I studied the Bible in a church group when I was a teenager.
I then decided there was no proof of God and became an atheist.
Much later I met a charming, gentle couple and we do jigsaw puzzles together.
They are avid churchgoers and have politely tried to convert me.
However they took ‘no, thanks’ as an answer.
If only all religious folk were as pleasant as these two…