He sees the desire to rape when it’s a hottie and not when it’s a tard. That’s all you need to know. Have fun defending your soul-brother, you sick fuckers.
And this is the reason people don’t agree with you.
I understand rape perfectly well (or so I think, I could easily be wrong). What’s the mindset of the rapist?
Want.
Take.
Have.
It’s simple.
Your problem is that you think rapists are monsters. That normal people would be incapable of rape. But I disagree. Rapists are human beings, not monsters. I suppose there really are some people who really are monsters, who don’t act out of any recognizable human impulse. But I believe such people are rare. Your typical mugger, murderer, or rapist is just a normal selfish asshole, not a psychopath.
Your instance that rape is or should be incomprehensible doesn’t make sense. You don’t have to forgive someone just because you understand why they did what they did. I understand why a bank robber robs a bank, he robs a bank because that’s where the money is. That doesn’t mean I forgive the bank robber, or think he should be let go, or that if my friend robbed a bank I’d stick by him.
And it’s inconsistent anyway. You claim that rapists are incomprehensible, yet you have plenty of ideas about what motivates rapists. So which is it? Or do your ideas about rape amount to an admission that you have something fucked up going on in the back of your head?
I insist upon the human motivations of the rapist for the same reason I insist on the humanity of the murderer or the concentration camp guard. Human beings can do monstrous things, and to refuse to see the humanity in a concentration camp guard is to excuse them. It’s an attempt to deny the dark side of humanity, to claim that evil happens because of wholly evil people. But it doesn’t. It happens because normal people can be incredible assholes under the right circumstances. The concentration camp guard can go home and kiss his kids goodnight. He can enjoy playing fetch with his dog. He can drink a glass of wine and enjoy a beautiful sunset. And the next day he can shoot prisoners in the back of the head. Welcome to the human race.
Denying his humanity lets him off the hook, it lets the rest of us off the hook. Oh, his crimes have nothing to do with us. We’re nothing like him. He is utterly alien. Except, he’s not. He’s a lot like us. And if we don’t want to end up like him, we have to choose not to act like him. Normal people are capable of immense evil, not because they’re innately evil, but because they are weak, selfish, ignorant, gullible, greedy, egotistic, lazy, and–wait, what where the seven deadly sins again?
And again, to recognize the humanity of a rapist doesn’t mean I minimize his crimes. If he were a monster, then rape wouldn’t even be a crime, it would be a natural disaster, like a bear mauling a hiker. It’s because he’s a human being that his actions are criminal.
Would a bear costume count?
Kinky.
Yes, we know that. What you’re failing to grasp is that your shrieking fit over this rather pedestrian and unexceptional (albeit flawed) understanding of rape psychology does not justify the frankly irrational conclusions you’ve drawn about Shodan’s character.
Look, physical attractiveness is a normal part of healthy sexuality. Most people’s desire to sleep with someone else is based, in large part, on how physically desirable they feel the other person is. And severe mental disabilities generally detract from someone’s sexual attractiveness. Trying to understand a rapist’s motives through these lenses is going to lead to a flawed conclusion, because a rapist isn’t acting out of a normal, healthy sexuality. That doesn’t make the person trying to understand the rapist’s motivations a bad person. It sure as shit doesn’t equate with the idea that it’s “okay” to rape attractive people.
But I’m probably wasting my time in even typing this, given that the next part of your post is:
Context is ever the enemy of the zealot.
Right. Shodan is clearly benefiting from the general attitude of bonhomie his posts typically engender on this message board. What with him being such a popular and widely-liked fellow around these parts, it was, of course, inevitable that your attack on him would fail to gain any traction here.
Oh thank god, another illiterate retard. How wonderful! I had *so *been hoping I’d get yet *another *opportunity to point out to someone that they’re a moron who can’t read.
What I’ve said repeatedly, including on this very page, and you’ve apparently missed every single time, is that my problem is ***not *** that that **Shodan **thinks he understand rape. It’s that he understands raping an attractive woman but not an unattractive one.
A normal person *should be *incapable of rape. It should be *inconceivable *to anyone to force another person into unwanted sexual activity of any kind. Anyone who can do this is fucked up in the head. Does it mean they’re not human? No, people do all sorts of terrible things and they’re still people (and even not sociopaths). Does it excuse their actions? No.
Exactly. But Shodan gets raping a hottie but not a tard. Raping an attractive woman *makes sense *to him, even though he’s (thank god) been socialized enough that he doesn’t condone it.
Oh, I’m sorry, you seem to have misunderstood. I don’t think you’re defending **Shodan **because you like him. I think you’re defending him because you’re seeing yourself reflected in this part of him I’m disgusted by. So by calling him fucked up, I’m also calling you fucked up, and you feel you have to lash out at me.
First you say this:
Then you say this:
Your second paragraph isn’t the same as the first, is it?
You’re making two points, and then you’re insisting you aren’t making the second point. It’s OK to make two points, but you wrote the second paragraph right after you wrote the first paragraph insisting you aren’t trying to make the point of the second paragraph.
You say it should be inconceivable to anyone to force another person into unwanted sexual activity.
Well, I’m sorry, but it’s very easy for me to conceive raping someone, especially since you brought it up. I disagree that this makes me fucked in the head. I can conceive all kinds of horrible stuff. Just because I can conceive rape doesn’t mean I’m going to rape someone, and it doesn’t even mean I want to rape someone. But I can imagine it, even though in my imagination it’s very unpleasant for everyone involved. We had a thread the other day about fighting a cheetah barehanded. I can easily imagine fighting a cheetah barehanded. Barehanded cheetah fights are not inconceivable. That doesn’t mean I wish I could fight a cheetah, or that I think it would be pleasant to fight a cheetah.
Well, exactly. You honestly think I’m a barely controlled rapist, based on what I wrote above? Honestly?
That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Dont confuse her, shes on a roll here!
(a rape roll)
Oh my gods. If there is any justice in the world, this retarded-as-fuck argument will be put out of its misery.
Miller, you’re a mod, right? Can’t you just end this shit?
Yes, I get that. What you don’t get is that that’s an entirely normal, rational, understandable misconception. To a person with a normal, healthy libido, trying to understand the motivation of a rapist, is almost always going to make that same mistake, because they’re going to assume that a rapist’s sexual desires function in essentially the same manner as a non-rapist. It is, therefore, entirely reasonable to assume that a rapist is more likely to attack an attractive person than an unattractive person. As the assault that inspired this pit thread so aptly illustrates, this is a flawed understanding, because the victims in this case were not conventionally attractive, so clearly, the rapists were not driven by a conventional libidinous reaction to an attractive person - a point which Shodan implicitly concedes when he admits to bafflement over the motivation for attacking these particular women.
However, there is no rational way to interpret what he wrote in the way that you have. There is no part of it that supports anything you’ve said about Shodan, in anyway. It is completely, totally, and without reservation, utterly fucking crazy pants. Compare your posts to ZPG Zealot’s “handshakes are like rape,” posts in her Pit thread. It’s like comparing baseball to softball: you’re clearly not playing in her league, but it’s still recognizable as the same sport.
Well, that’s not entirely inaccurate. Your posts here have been an offense to reason, so it’s understandable that reasonable people might be offended by them. Or, as you once so eloquently stated, simply posting in the Pit is all the provocation you need for calling someone an idiot.
Or does that not count when it’s you on the other end?
I see what you did there.
Does he make you as hot as he does me?
Let’s hope so, because then you would not be a rapist. Or something - at this point I have kind of lost track.
Regards,
Shodan
Well done, Shot From Guns. The point is to keep insisting you are correct when everybody around you can see you overstated your position because of an emotional reaction. People will respect you more for it.
Never surrender!
It doesn’t mean “could you picture it happening” in the sense of being able to see a picture of it in your mind. Anybody with an imagination can do that. What it means is that there should be no version of you who is still you who would be actually capable of it. That you wouldn’t ever see a woman, drunk or drugged to the point where she can’t say no or even remember what you’ll do to her, with no witnesses, and even for a second think, “I am going to pull her underwear off and stick my penis in her vagina.”
If you can conceive of yourself literally, truly raping a woman if you think you could get away with it, such that you would *actually carry through with it *given the opportunity, then feel free to haul yourself over to the “fucking disgusting” pile.
Okay, how about this for a concession: **Shodan **must fulfill at least one of the following two criteria: retarded or disgusting. Does *that *satisfy you?
You know what else used to be a “normal, rational, and understandable misconception”? That Americans whose ancestors came partly from Africa weren’t as smart as the ones who came mostly from Europe, because they didn’t perform as well on standardized tests, were more likely to live in poverty, etc. I’d say it’s about as constructive an opinion as “women are raped because they’re pretty.” Because as long as people claim that the disparities between whites and minority groups in the U.S. is due to the natural inferiority of non-European genetics, we can’t address the actual root causes. And as long as people continue to think that rape is something that is determined by the actions, choices, or qualities of the victim, we can’t address the root causes of rape, either.
Look back at the first thing I said. It wasn’t that **Shodan **disgusted me. It just was that I wasn’t surprised by what he was saying. Because so many times when he opens his mouth here, ignorance falls out. And it’s always the destructive kind.
You’re absolutely allowed to call me stupid. And I’m allowed to rebut your accusation. Where am I complaining about anything other than having to repeat myself? Please point me to a single post that says, “You guys are so meeeeeaaaaaan, why can’t you just leave me alone?” (Protip: You’re not going to find one.)
I also think we should start a drinking game where everybody does a shot every time someone accuses a woman in a thread about rape of “shrieking” or being “shrill.” Winner is the one who manages to keep the vomit down instead of spewing their sexist language all over the forum.
In a 1986 survey by Neil Malamuth of UCLA, 30% of male participants admitted they would commit rape if they knew there was no chance of being caught. When the survey changed from “rape” to “force a woman into having sex” over 50% said they would do it if they knew they would not be caught. Unfortunately, it isn’t a rare viewpoint.
It’s also scary as shit that 20% of participants considered forcing a woman to have sex to be in a qualitative way different from raping a woman.
Maybe they thought the first meant with somebody else. Um… not that that’s better.
Eh, I can imagine having that thought for a second, maybe two or three seconds.
If I’m in a store and the clerk is gone, I sometimes think, “Huh, I could just grab anything and walk out.” Or at a bank, a couple times I’ve thought about giving the clerk a note to hand over all the money, real smooth like George Clooney in “Out of Sight”. Like, what would really happen if I did that? Or, I work for a large software company, what would happen if I started sending crazy emails to billg? Would it be ignored, or would some HR person come talk to me about it? Or the old, you’re driving over a bridge and you think, what would happen if I just swerved into the guardrail?
I don’t even know what that’s supposed to mean. I mean, the words all make sense and appear to be in their proper order, but I can’t understand how they relate to what I just said.
You know, once you’ve already compared everyone who disagrees with you to rapists, comparing them to racists loses a lot of its punch.
Funny thing about this. Nobody in this thread has said that. Not even Shodan. In fact, in his original post, he made it pretty clear that he understood this was *not *the reason rape happens. I’m surprised you didn’t pick up on that, what with your passionate dedication to adult literacy.
If it makes you feel any better, I find most of your posts to be shrill and shrieking, even when they’re not about rape.
What about drawing a giant Sharpie penis on her face? Because in that case I might be in trouble.