Oh, that is one problem I’m finding with Discourse. I’m never quite sure what features users have vs. Mods vs. Admin. Eventually we probably need a Dummy account shared among the Mods for seeing what a user can see.
vBulletin was somehow simpler in this regards and when I was an Admin for a vB board I had at least 2 or 3 different test accounts. But I was also acting as a tech at that time.
Sounds like a good idea. Setting up a new account from scratch would also show you what the system is like for new users, which could be useful if they have any issues.
Fair enough, and thanks for pointing out that you’re trying to follow the guidance that Jonathan laid out. I’m not here to argue, and my voice doesn’t count anyway, but I want to be clear about why I respectfully disagree, and this will be my last word on the matter. As others here have noted, attacking the post, not the poster, has been a long-accepted debate strategy here. Suddenly judging such long-standing practice as constituting an “insult” just because the criticism of the post is deemed insufficiently polite takes us into entirely new ground, IMHO.
I would also respectfully point out that although he was generally an excellent mod, Jonathan himself has on a number of occasions been criticized for hair-trigger moderation that resulted in disputed warnings felt to be unwarranted. And I’m not sure that even Jonathan would have agreed with taking it this far.
A counter-example, in my view, is the former moderator @Bone. It was interesting to me that politically we disagreed on almost everything – indeed we were pretty much polar opposites – yet I appreciated his even-handed and restrained moderation. And it was not for lack of dedication – he even took the trouble to clarify and rewrite many of the rules. I’ll always consider it a loss to the community that he stepped down. And then, for some reason, Jonathan felt it necessary to rewrite them again, introducing this new idea of much stricter moderation in GD and PE. I see this as representing simply his own views on the matter, views which should be tempered by the fact that, as you can see, a number of long-time posters disagree with them, or at least with how they’re being interpreted.
My view is that clear cases of trolling, disruption, and other instances of abject stupidity absolutely need to be moderated, but anything that tries to establish an arbitrary “tone” tends to stifle debate and risks doing more harm than good. And this, in turn, reduces the incentive to participate, which is the lifeblood of this board.
Thanks for listening. We all want what’s best for the board, and sometimes we disagree on the best way to do that.
I’m going to have to disagree with that notion pretty strongly. Not so much the underlying philosophy* as the problem that this de facto comes down to the majority of well-established posters that have the interest and energy to express an opinion in ATMB. I didn’t express an opinion in this thread until this point, but I often do have one - I just don’t feel like engaging. And my opinion may not always be on the same wavelength as yours. For example although I wouldn’t want to take it too far (100% defined by ‘I know it when I see it’), I DO like a modicum of tone-policing on my message boards. Just a modicum, but definitely not none. We’re all adults - we can be fucking polite outside the Pit or shut the fuck up 
. You’re literally setting out a prescription for rules set by the squeaky wheels amongst us, which I’m just not in favor of.
*I’m actually not sure I am entirely in agreement with the underlying philosophy either. It all comes down to how much of a democratic/egalitarian model you want for board management.
I’m thinking something along the lines of:
“Hey, gang. You may see a mod refer to a user note, something that goes into your file. This is new to Discourse. It is not a warning, but we may refer to it on later occasions when we discuss your privileges in the mod loop just to remind us of past behaviors.”
Or, something else that better explains what a user note is and what it will be used for in the future, since despite my asking several times you have not answered that question. If I can’t get an answer in a thread specifically about user notes, then others may also have problems understanding what they are.
Making it clear and answering questions about it may save much agita when the term reappears in another thread. I don’t get the furor about the mythical “permanent record” but others care. Why not get in front of the issue now?
OK, fair enough, but I will ask the other mods if they’re using the User Notes and if so how. I can only speak to my usage. We came onboard as new mods not that long after the Discourse move, I’m not sure we have all played with and started using the new features.
Thankfully, engineering_comp_geek wrote up a really good How to moderate on Discourse thread or bringing on new mods probably would have been a lot tougher. It has been extremely helpful. Thanks again ECG.
I just found out today the canned replies is a mod/admin only thing. I’ll have to let the other mods know about that. I started the tagging in the Café to give the Café a little bit of a subforum ability without changing how the Café works.
It is possible I’m the only one that has written user notes so far. I actually don’t like giving warning (believe it or not) and like using modnotes and if possible a modnotes with a usernote before having to warn someone.
Again, you are attempting to make this into something more formal than it is.
User notes are a feature of Discourse. That’s it. We as mods have not come up with any formal system for using them, and I believe that What_Exit is the only mod who has used one for public moderation.
As far as user notes not being warnings, eh, kinda. All warnings are user notes. All warnings are also PMs. But all user notes are not warnings just as all PMs are not warnings.
If we choose, we can also write up something in a post and stick it in one of the mod-only forums. We can also post things to the mod loop. None of these are part of our formal rules system. User notes (added by mods) are in the same sort of category. They are things that we can use that are not part of the formal warning system that we have set up here.
The takeaway for a user here is that if we now say we are making a permanent note of something, Discourse now has this feature built into the software. But that’s it. Don’t make more out of it than it is. Previously, if we said we were permanently keeping track of something, we had to make a post about it in one of the mod forums. vBulletin did not have anything like user notes in it. For example, if you have a topic ban, that is recorded in one of the mod only forums.
User notes are not something that is between a mod note and a warning. What_Exit may have used a user note exactly for this purpose in this particular case, but we as moderators have not formally adopted user notes for such a purpose. User notes are literally just notes. They could mean almost anything, and could mean almost nothing.
Discourse adds user notes for every software action. If you are suspended, DIscourse adds a user note for it. If Discourse silences a user (something it likes to do to potential spammers), it adds a user note for it. When we look at your warnings under Discourse, we look at your user notes, because that’s where Discourse records the warning (we also track it in one of the mod forums).
I mean, on a board focused on fighting ignorance, we can’t even say that a post is ignorant? And at one point I got noted for using sarcasm. Sarcasm!
I wish that half the energy invested in compelling “nice words” would be redirected toward correctly inferring the intent of trolls, sealions, one-trick ponies, people with a well-documented history of disrupting, derailing, and undermining substantive conversations.
If mods were bolder about attacking that kind of weaponized jerkishness, maybe there would be less need to police the finer margins of politeness in response to frustration. The latter only emboldens the former.
Link please?
I think we are being more aggressive towards trolls. Some are complaining too aggressive. There is a process though, we don’t instaban accept spammers and socks. Mods are suppose to reach a consensus on trolls.
Yeah - the trolls 
As requested, link to a post where I asked for note explanation and was told that it was excessively “dripping with sarcasm.”. I chose not to fight city hall on that, but I find that rationale to be over-the-top.
I see some improvement in that area. I’ve seen more troll banning than in the past, and almost none that I disagree with. But I feel like, along with that, there’s also a trend toward overpolicing the margins of civility.
Personally, I experience more disruption from sealions, attention-seekers, and chronic threadshitters, than the occasional unkind word. I feel like the latter is getting overpoliced simply because it’s more clear-cut and thus more defensible. But… while an unkind word can be policed if it progresses to a slapfight, a well-rested sealion can run a thread to ten pages just by endlessly politely asking for yet a slightly better cite while harrumphing about others being impolite.