I’ll take, “because authorities are trying to steal this mans $150 dollars”, for $200 Alex.
Things like this should be on a case-by-case basis. The guy took only a few minutes at most to help the aunt to the wheelchair and say goodbye. Now if he went to the mini-bar and took 20 minutes lounging around the place, then yeah, fine him. But this case doesn’t warrant a fine. Any competent judge should see this through. Unfortunately, judges work for the county, and want their money.
…and for those of you who thinks he should pay. Get some measuring tape and lay out 20ft. That is not what I would call abandoned!
Well, there’s leaving the vehicle and then there’s leaving the vehicle. If nothing else, a challenge might force the policing authority at this airport to clarify and train their officers as to exactly how long a driver can be out from behind their wheel and how far away from their vehicle they can get before their actions move from “helping their passengers with their luggage and getting them situated” to “illegally abandoning a vehicle in violation of airport security.”
Unless, of course, you want to set a standard that the only way to manage an airport drop off any more complicated than an able-bodied person with a small carry on jumping out and running after a quick peck on the cheek is to bring a third passenger along or pay to park. Surely airport authorities would like that, as it would make money for them, but it isn’t always feasible or reasonable. Real life just doesn’t work like that.
I’ll admit I am not an expert on traffic ticket jurisprudence, but having been the recipient of tickets in about a dozen jurisdictions I have never been given the option of contesting the citation in small claims court. The venue has always been something like municipal court, and I’ve never been required to pay a filing fee to contest it. So I’ll take “plead ‘not guilty’ in muni court unless the OP can explain why small claims” for $150.
Wow. This is quite the deep thought.
Is the OP planning on returning to expound further?
You are making the assumption of course that the OP is not only an accurate judge of 20 ft, but also wouldn’t think of making his story sound better. I would think if he was only 20 ft away he would have noticed the stranger walk up to his vehicle.
Just because the airport makes sort term parking available, doesn’t mean you have to utilize it. Park on the curb and accept the risk of receiving a ticket.
That’s exactly what the drop zone is for. You pull up, a passenger gets out (with or without the peck on the cheek), and you drive away. Anything else, use the short term parking which is usually free for the 1st 30 minutes (or at least it is at Chicago Midway). Even long term parking is free in Peoria, but that’s a smaller airport (but you can’t park in the drop-off zone there either).
Bingo
I guess you would know then!
Just because it’s not an option, doesn’t mean you can’t take to small claims. It’s just a mini-lawsuit.
Congratulations, you win the prize! Is there something wrong with taking things on by a case-by-case basis? There is a big difference in taking a few minutes helping your disabled aunt with her departure and actually leaving your car while you go touring around all day. I don’t think he deserves the ticket. Ah hell, screw it, let’s just give tickets to everyone who pulls into the airport.
Well the OP did mention that he saw the guy who issued the ticket.
That’s like saying, “just because you get vacation days, doesn’t mean you get to use them.”
Can you tell me in what city, county or state you can contest a traffic or parking ticket in Small Claims Court? It makes no sense to me and I have never heard of it. Small Claims Court AFAIK is for civil claims which meet a number of conditions which vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. I accanot see how a Small Claims Court would have jurisdiction over a traffic matter. Where does it happen?
Well, no, there certainly could be some jurisdiction in which the venue to challenge a forfeiture is small claims court. I admit, as I said, that I am not an expert on the subject. I would find it very unusual, if not unconstitutional, that a parking ticket is challenged by the defendant becoming the plaintiff in a civil suit.
In reviewing the Las Vegas Municipal Court jurisdiction, I find that
So I stand corrected, no thanks to you, in that muni court appears to be the wrong venue, unless “processing” the ticket is different from challenging the ticket. Any Vegas Dopers able to provide more information on that?
Well, um, yeah actually. If it’s not an option that means that you can’t take it to small claims court. See, there is a concept known as “jurisdiction.” Legal challenges can only be heard in a court of competent jurisdiction. If you can provide a cite that small claims courts in Clark County, Nevada have jurisdiction over this ticket, and that the mechanism for challenging said ticket is to file suit against the issuing department, please do so.
I’ll even make it easy for you. Here’s a link to the “Justice Courts” in Clark County and, as it turns out, they do handle
Unfortunately the OP did not tell us who issued his citation so we can’t know with certainty with the information at hand whether he would seek redress through the Justice Courts, but assuming arguendo that he would I would still like to see a cite that his process for seeking redress is to file suit against the issuing department.
The issuer did take it on a case by case basis, and made the determination in this case to issue the citation.
No it means that the OP had a choice to either park in the short term parking, where it’s either free or at most a small charge, or park in the drop zone and accept the risk of receiving a ticket. OP picked the latter option and lost. Case closed.
I’d say that if Czarcasm’s post was accurate about their announcements regarding “abandoned” vehicles you should call them back and see if they’d be willing to reduce the ticket to $75 again.
If it wasn’t clearly announced that they had this policy in effect, then I’d say fight the ticket.
And I apologize for the hijackish nature of this, but:
Might his ticket be filed in small claims court if it was issued by a private security service instead of a government law enforcement agency?
Hello…me, the OP.
Regarding the Small Claims Court - the thing is, this ticket is NOT from the Las Vegas police, it is from the Department of Aviation. Thus, the only place I can dispute this is in Small Claims. I might add that although I am not a lawyer, I work for a large law firm as their database admin. I spoke with an attorney there, and he said I had a fighting chance, but he also said it depended on the judge.
About the 20 feet. Yes, it really was that close. As I said, the airport was really busy that day, Tuesday March 30th at 8:30 AM…whereas normally the SkyCabs are standing around twiddling thumbs and come right to your car. The last few times I have taken my aunt to the airport, that has always been the case. But like I said, it was so busy and I took the luggage to curbside at Southwest Airlines and they told me they would call for the SkyCab and to bring my aunt there - where I dropped off her luggage.
About short term parking. I do that when I pick her up, but now you are no longer able to go to the gate and wait, and my aunt is quite happy to sit in her wheelchair and read her book (she is an avid reader and likes to be at the airport two hours early so she can read and people watch). I suppose I could have parked short term, gotten a wheel chair and schlepped her luggage behind me…but in the dozens of times I have taken her to the airport for the return trip home, this was the first time I had to scurry to get the luggage and SkyCab. There has never been a problem.
My own personal feeling is that this might also have been a case of “end of the month quota” for tickets. The fact that the guy who wrote the ticket refused to even look me in the face lets me know he was fully aware of why I was not in, or next to my car.
I also agree that there is no stipulation in the Patriot Act that says to ticket me for taking my aunt to a wheelchair…but twice the airport personnel used that as an excuse when I called. They seem to be using it as a free pass to do whatever they do in the name of fighting terrorism. To me, they are becoming the terrorists by flaunting it to anyone who dares question their authority.
I have decided that I will pursue the case and will take it to court.
I like the idea of writing a letter to the local paper and television station, and fully intend to do so.
I promise to let you all know how it turns out, and thanks for all your input!
What is the Deparment of Aviation? I’m looking at Nevada’s website and I’m not finding it as a state department, and I’m not aware of a federal “department of aviation.” If it’s issued by the Federal Aviation Administration (and I have no clue whether the FAA even issues tickets) it makes no sense to me that it would be contested in a state small claims court and it also makes no sense that the person contesting the ticket would have to file suit against the issuing agency and pay a filing fee. It’s like being arrested for shoplifting and having to pay a fee before you get a trial.
Take a video of yourself pacing the footage from where you parked to where you left your aunt, preferably with a camcorder or digicam that has its own playback monitor. The location of the car should be mentioned on the ticket and the video will help establish that it was only 20 feet and that you would have heard your name called.
You’re right, there is short-term parking available at all major airports. In a big garage. Across five to seven lanes of traffic. Down/up at least one escalator and up/down another. All of which DMark’s aunt must cross with her CANE. Did you not read the freakin’ OP? If the Vegas airport offers Skycap service in the garage that’s one thing, but I’ve NEVER seen Skycap in the garage - It’s all freakin’ curbside!! You HAVE to park there to get the service!
It would be one thing if he parked at Aardvark Airlines and walked her to Zebra Flights, but it was 20 feet!
RAWR.
Common SENSE, people! Security is security, but plain ol’ freakin’ common sense should not go by the wayside just because half of my country has gone freakin’ insanely rabid over security - the SAME security which will allow me to carry my Lamy fountain pen (with it’s 1/2" steel nib) on six airplanes (in two countries!) but confiscate freakin’ embroidery scissors and Safe-T razors.
My gawd, Czarcasm…I’ve just taken a walk around my quite chilly block and your post STILL peeves me off.
DMark, I’m 800 bucks and two months of unemployment to flat broke, but I’m more than willing to pony up 20 if you’ll go to court and tell them how STUPID that ticket was.
I’m all for following rules and everything, but if the officer felt the need to lie on the ticket, I think he needs to be called on it, at least.
This is what makes me effing hate cops.
The Department of Aviation is the county airport authority. I didn’t see anything on contesting tickets, so you may want to talk to the parking and security office before you do anything.
Robin
Incorrect. The short term parking deck I was in last week had attendants on duty in case ppl needed assistance. Parking decks fall under the same guidlines as any other public facility, they must be handicap accessible and I can’t recall any of the numerous airports I’ve been in where you are required to cross 5-7 lanes of traffic.
Yes you could have followed the same rules that apply to the rest of us, parked in short term parking, gotten the wheelchair, and schlepped her luggage…Cry me a river boo hoo hoo
Oh yea, it’s always somebody else’s fault. Parking in the drop zone had nothing to do with it.
At McCarran, short-term parking is immediately across the way from and on the same level as the terminal, ramped, and costs 50 cents for 20 minutes. Wheelchair service is available on the white courtesy phone. What’s inconvenient at McCarran is access to the security lines after check-in – those are ass-across the main terminal, up an escalator and through a maze of mall/slots.
DMark, you made a bad bet. Cut your losses if you can, pay up and move on.
McCarran is progressive, in that case. I know from my personal experiences that wheelchair service was not readily available (or not advertised as available at all) at BWI, Newark, Pittsburgh, Charlotte, Dayton or Austin, and that’s just off the top of my head from the time that I was wheelchair-bound myself (after major knee surgery) and unfortunately required to do a lot of business travel. When I called and asked, I was always told to have my driver come to the curbside check-in area, then get a skycap or service agent to come and get me with the wheelchair.
Unfortunately, sometimes the skycaps/agents weren’t inclined to come all the way to the car, so I had to go to them. (As if someone who needs a wheelchair would have no problems getting from the car to about ten feet in from the curb, so there was no reason to wheel up to them and help out!) Before I was safe to try to do independently, my drivers would have to play “human crutch” to get me safely to the wheelchair.
But airport services for the mobility impaired are rather off topic. The OP could have been taking his aunt’s personal wheelchair out of the trunk, helping her into it and then wheeling her to wherever there was a person who would help her the rest of the way to the gate. He coudl have been helping his wife who was flying out with two small kids who needed to be secured in strollers and had a bunch of luggage. He could’ve been helping his dad and his dad’s three friends who had luggage and equipment from a week’s Vegas Golfing Vacation. He could’ve been dropping off a string quartet about to embark on a world tour, and helping them manage the cello and bass fiddle and all of their luggage.
There are a lot of reasons why a driver would be out of their car and assisting their passengers at the drop-off zone of an airport, it happens every day in every city. If the airport authorities, TSA, county sherriffs or whomever is charged with security on the roadways surrounding airport terminals want drivers to stay inside of their cars at all times while in the drop-off and pick-up zones, then that’s the policy which needs to be posted. If drivers are going to be allowed to get out of their cars to assist their passengers or to help with baggage, then there needs to be a standard for how far from the car a driver can stray (The curb? The outside check-in stand? The terminal doorway? The vestibule?) and what length of time they can be out of the car before their vehicle is deemed to be illegally “parked” or “abandoned” and a ticket is issued, and that standard needs to be known, as well. People cannot comply with regulations when they have no way of knowing what the regulations are.