“Sooo,” the Right intones, “do you want OPEN BORDERZZzSSs?” like the evil snake mutherfuckers they are.
Um, yeah, sure! is my answer.
Gemini says:
And for all of my life, the Right has had a dual consciousness with respect to primarily Mexican but also other Hispanic and also some non-Hispanic immigrants who do the jobs in this country that a lot of other people don’t want to do:
Get them out of here–they’re “illegals”!!!
Oh, but we sure need these [insert racial slur] to pick our crops and clean our hotel rooms. It’s great having guest workers that pay into the tax system but can’t do a fucking thing to stand up for their rights because they’re scared they’ll be deported–splendid!
Get 'um OUT. Keep 'um IN! So conscientious, so consistent, so conservative.
Well, here’s the thing: any division between “us” (whoever we think we are) and the Mexicans et al. is 100% purely fucking artificial. We want them here as our half-slaves, but we don’t want them here because we’ve got a good thing and we don’t want to fucking share.
But here’s a thought: FUCK the exploiters, FUCK the oppressors, FUCK the white supremacists. FUCK borders, FUCK the artificial division between people.
Guess what? We live on a big (but not all that big) ball floating in space, and we evolved as the dominant species on this ball, and there is only ONE people on this planet. Only one. Nations and borders are artificial bullshit. We can choose to exploit each other or take care of each other.
So perhaps I misspoke. I don’t want open borders. I want none. Borders are bullshit. Countries are bullshit. The exploiters and oppressors are absolute fucking bullshit. One world. One people. That’s the ultimate truth, and we can evolve to accept it–or not.
I’ve found this dual attitude towards foreign workers to be an odd American attitude in general not just on the right. I would like an immigration policy that is humane and recognize the economic importance of foreign workers. Sadly, this doesn’t seem to be the desire of most Americans for the last 30-40 years. Even in the 90s, a lot of Americans talked tough about border control, but few of them had the stomach to do anything about it. Either because it would hurt our economic interest or maybe they couldn’t stomach the heavy handed tactics necessary to remove the “illegals.”
Good luck. Maybe one day, but in the here and now we’ve got no chance of that happening. I’m happy having my borders and I don’t want them to be open.
@Aeschines, this is more of a rant than a structured discussion. It’s borderline Pit material. However, I think the discussion is a good one to have, so I’m going to leave it in P&E for the moment instead of closing it and giving you the option of reopening it in the Pit.
Let’s see where the discussion goes, but be advised, it may be short lived in P&E if it continues in the same ranty vein.
I wish we lived in a world that was ready to accept this.
For what it is worth, I love the idea of “open borders” between Commonwealth countries. So as a citizen of Canada I could move to the UK or New Zealand or etc. without having to worry about bureaucracy. But I don’t know if that was ever a serious proposal or just a “wouldn’t it be cool?” idea.
Thanks. The OP may have been emotional in tone as that’s where I am today with the nazi thugs attacking our cities, but I am ready to have a rational discussion.
I think a key question, then, is, “Why aren’t we ready to accept this?” We went from open borders in the past to a world of borders, passports, and TSA inspections. Why? What is the benefit, and to whom?
Didn’t Cuba empty its prisons and send those prisoners to the US in the Mariel Boatlift in the 80s?
I am as appalled by what is happening today as anyone here. I honestly think Trump is making ICE into his version of Brownshirts and immigration is a cover.
That said, I can see a reason for border control. Not what Trump wants but something reasonable would makes sense. Nothing draconian. For Mexico and Canada it should be very easy. Not the mess it is now.
Truly open borders? No way. For at least two reasons:
Even with all of our problems, the U.S. is still one of the strongest economies in the world. If our borders were “we’re open, come on in,” we would be completely inundated with economic refugees, political refugees, and just people from less-prosperous countries seeking a better life. We should have an immigration program to admit some such people, but throwing open the floodgates would be a disaster.
The other reason is security. There are a lot of people, organizations, and nations out there who wish the U.S. ill. Truly open borders would be an invitation to them to come here and inflict pain and revenge upon us.
Most countries adopted, or greatly increased, immigration restrictions in the decade after World War I.
In the U.S., the Klan supported the 1924 law that ended mass immigration. So did the AFLCIO. It was a very popular law..
I think relatively high legal immigration is in the national interest.
Open borders are a temporary solution to a long-term issue. Letting everyone in the world who can borrow enough money, for an air ticket to a westernized country, would fill every spare airliner seat in the world, for maybe year or so, with migrants. After a year or so, there would be a reaction where Trump-type leaders seized power.
To try to answer, it seems so obvious that immigrants compete with natives for jobs. This is why labor unions traditionally oppose mass immigration.
In my view, immigrants create high paid jobs supervising the immigrants, collecting their taxes, and starting businesses that will need services of high paid workers like accountants and lawyers.
And if the immigrants are legal, they can come out of the shadows and join or form labor unions, increasing their own pay and creating good jobs within the union.
Now, there are unskilled native workers who will read this and think — I am not a supervisor, an accountant, or a lawyer. My employer is highly anti-union. So immigration sounds like a losing proposition for me.
While immigration benefits most Americans, it does not benefit every last one of us. That’s a real problem.
In response to the OP, would there be no security screening, or would folks have to pass inspection first but then be allowed in? There are some people who’d promptly bring in explosives, narcotics, various contraband, trafficked humans, etc.
Yeah, the open-borders that the OP describes would be swiftly used as a means of stealth invasion. Russia would quickly send millions of Russian citizens to emigrate into the Baltic states, nonviolently, and they’d essentially become de facto parts of Russia.