Trump and the right's immigration stances are pushing the left towards open borders.

Great Debates
1

I’d like to start off with I support immigration and I support borders. I do not support detaining children (unless there is a violent crime or repeat crime committed, or the safety of the child is in jeopardy). To some degree I do support illegal immigrants, I support the idea you’re of telling the gov to go fuck it’s self and entering the US illegally to give your family a better life. However I do not support the undermining of US workers, I do not support corporations exploiting illegals for cheap, unsafe, unregulated, labor. I do not support the conditions we place these illegals in by not allowing our laws to be applied to them, because when they are they’re deported or locked up instead.

Now with that said, the point of this thread is to bring attention to the fact open borders is an actual thing millions of people are talking about. I find that a bit scary or perhaps intimidating would be a better word. I’m a leftist who is against letting everyone and their mother into the country with no rules. However I’m against having people wait 20 years, or turning asylum seekers away without even looking into them. I believe Trump’s rhetoric towards these immigrants and the media portraying Trump as fucking Hitler (I don’t agree with that) has contributed greatly to the growing position on having outright open borders. I’m sure open borders has been talked about for a very long time, but now they seem to be more of a reality people actually want. I honestly believe it’s a combination of the left’s progressive movement with bernie, and the right’s hard stance on immigration, that we’re seeing more and more people want open borders. If we vote in a bunch of dems or better yet progressives, then we might actually get open borders just because people have this idea open borders are a good idea.
So does anyone agree with this idea that Trump/the right’s anti-immigration stances, the media’s portray of their stances, and the bernie crew are pushing the left towards open borders? And does anyone here actually think open borders is a good idea? If so why or why not? I’m hell bent on the moderates or centrists position on this, improve the immigration system, but don’t outright deny everyone, nor outright allow everyone in. I don’t think the current system is working too good, I think Obama did it better than Trump has. I think Obama’s policy on immigration was fine (after judges made him catch and release). If someone repeats a crime, or commits a violent crime then yeah fuck them lock em up. But if they’re just seeking asylum, or maybe they been in the US for decades, they shouldn’t be thrown out. They should be given a pathway to citizenship while already here. If people get in the country and by all means become American, then they should be given that option to become citizens instead of being thrown out. My main issue with all of this is the left’s idea that we need to have open borders. That’s absurd and I’d really like to know what dopers opinions on it would be.

2

I don’t support the idea of open borders. But the conservative plan for closed borders is just as bad. The alternative to illegal immigration should be legal immigration not no immigration.

Immigration should not include any limits based on race, religion, or nationality. If you want to screen potential immigrants to see if they are a criminal or a terrorist, that’s okay. But we should not be banning an entire country, an entire religion, or an entire race.

3

The only ones I hear talking about complete open borders is Trump and his circus claiming that that’s what Democrats want. Reasonable immigration is fine, the ‘wall’ is a ridiculous idea that is supported by a ridiculous president.

Democrats as a group want completely open borders? That just another lie by Trump.

4

That’s pretty much how I feel about it. It’s just scary to hear this talk about either or, open or closed borders, and I believe it’s this ultimatum is being made by the bumper sticker politics going on in both sides.

No I mean he’s pushing certain people towards the idea open borders are good. Sure the current centrist dems aren’t radical enough to even propose open borders, but it’s definitely something individuals associated with the left have talked about. Personally I’ve heard people say we need open borders, I believe this is due to Trump’s lying and his stance on immigration which prompts these people to retaliate with what little information or insight they have on the topic. That being, trump opposes openborders and claims they want open boarders, therefor they support open borders in spite of trump. It may not be so wide spread it’ll become reality, but it’s still being spread much more than it has in the recent past. I don’t remember even thinking about open border during obama, but with all this talk about them it’s being an idea planted in peoples heads so of course it’s getting stirred around.

5

I think this in many ways is very similar to what the gay-marriage issue was, for Democrats, 30 years ago.

It is not “we don’t support it” - it’s “we don’t support it…yet.”

The main reason Democrats can’t or won’t openly state that they are in favor of open borders is because they know that doing so would hit them hard at the ballot box. (Sure, there are many who genuinely oppose open borders, but for some, I think they support it secretly inside and simply cannot admit it openly, just like how Democrats didn’t openly embrace gay marriage in the 1980s because they knew its time had not come.)

I have a feeling that, twenty years from now, open borders will have become the mainstream view (like how gay-marriage now has majority support.)

6

That’s not my position. I legitimately don’t see why it’s so bad to discuss restrictions on passport issuance, visa issuance, and border control, keeping in mind that refugees are a thing and can be dealt with in a benevolent yet not reckless way.

I just don’t see why we have to be so racist about it.

7

Is the Libertarian Party “liberal”? Because their platform says, “Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders.”

8

What does open borders even mean? Aside from anarchists and others on the extreme fringes, I don’t think anyone actually advocates for literal open borders.

9

I assume they mean open borders like exist within the EU and within the US between states. And no, I have never heard anyone advocate for that at the US/Mexico or US/Canada border. Only the so-called “president.”

10

I doubt this will be the case, because one of them has real world problems associated with it and the other doesn’t. With gay marriage, despite the protests from some conservatives, other people’s marriages are not affected. With immigration there are all kinds of societal effects that can cause issues in the country receiving the immigrants.

11

Sneaking over the border or outstaying your visa is illegal. Enforcing that is reasonable and the real Barack Obama did so.

Coming to the US to request asylum is legal. If Trump doesn’t like that law, he has the freedom to make a real argument against it to Congress and ask them to change the law.

12

What do you do when people are trying to come from places where the people can’t be checked out? Obama realized the reality of this and identified 6 or 7 countries. This are the same countries Trump identified as problematic for immigration and halted it. What would you do?

13

Maybe there’s a happy medium between banning an entire country and doing nothing at all. It’s almost as if that’s a false dichotomy…

14

Does the DNC Deputy Chairman count?

And it’s not just him:

15

I agree. And so does Trump. He never “banned” countries, he paused accepting immigrants until they could figure out who to vet them.

16

I’m glad that there is a thread about this topic. I don’t understand the liberal endgame. I’ve been working in Eastern Europe and Central Asia. I am constantly asked to help people get visas. Even getting a travel visa is a huge problem. I had no idea that a person from the Republic of Georgia, Ukraine, or the “stans” couldn’t even come and visit NYC or Disneyland for a week without going through a lengthy and expensive process that often ends up with them being denied.

I support the concept of tall (metaphorical) walls and wide gates. Is there some reason that we should accept illegal immigration from Mexico but not everywhere else? I understand the needs of the asylum seekers, but perhaps the better solution is to address the issues in the asylum seekers’ own countries.

17

News flash: Trump and henchmen never intended to figure that out.

18

The GOP and their agenda of white nationalism and nativism is pushing a lot of people in the opposite direction. I think some people on the left are growing uncomfortable with any border enforcement because they feel it is placating or agreeing with the white nationalists.

19

“Henchmen” makes me laugh as it brings me back to the Batman series of the '60s. As does the notion of a Super-Duper Intent Figure-Outer.

20

So, a fringe that remains a fringe when policy was made on the past administration and it remains a fringe idea.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/zorn/ct-perspec-zorn-open-borders-trump-fact-check-0701-20180629-story.html

The ones that believe that Democrats listen to those fringe ideas are the ones that do base their policies on conspiracy and wrong information.