So I got a call from my son's math teacher this morning...(looooong)

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

I don’t want to discount anyone’s experience with ADD. However, let’s not discount the reality that garden-variety laziness is a far more common problem.

I also agree with WhyNot. I have one of each of type of child. My first one responded only to being put in charge of her own work. The worst punishment we could dole out was to force her to go over her work with us or to monitor her assignments. When she realized that we would quit doing that if she convinced us she’d stay on top of things herself, she started keeping up very nicely.

My younger child is just like yours sounds, cruel butterfly. We spent two hellish years hounding her about her work, checking in her agenda (her school’s version of the planner) every single day, and having what seemed like endless teacher conferences. The one difference? She was in sixth and seventh grade. If you can get this issue resolved now, when your son is in elementary school, life will be much easier for both of you when he’s in middle school.

We got into a routine last year. I insisted that something be written down for every single class every single day, no matter whether she had homework. After consulting with all of her teachers and letting them know what was going on, I made sure she noted in her agenda what she was doing in class, what homework was assigned, and what they were reading. I checked her agenda every night, and the teachers all (bless them) checked it daily and made notations where necessary. She scraped through by the skin of her teeth last year and made it into eighth grade.

Along with the emphasis on accountability at school, we also worked on responsibility at home. We set up a schedule (with her input) that had her getting a snack as soon as she got home, then going up to her room (no TV) to do her homework. When we discovered that she wasn’t doing her work up there, we moved the homework space to the den instead so that I could supervise her more easily but she wouldn’t have the distractions she would in the living room (no TV!). She had to bring her homework to a parent to have it checked as soon as it was done, and she wasn’t allowed to do anything else until all of it was complete. On weekends, she had to do her chores at a specific time as well as doing any homework, and it all had to be done before she could go out to play. This, as you can imagine, was no fun for any of us, and it lasted for months. Over the summer, we tried to keep her on a schedule as well, although it wasn’t as stringent.

This year, she has turned over a completely new leaf. She’s still entering everything into her agenda, but she’s doing it willingly and of her own accord. I look it over once a week, and although I ask her about her homework, I’m not checking every assignment. She’s turned everything in so far, and she’s getting A’s in every subject. Her teachers are all very pleased with her, and so are her dad and I.

Hang in there - it takes a lot of work, and you’ll feel like a complete nag and/or ogre a lot of the time, but consistent discipline can pay off in the end.

22

My shameful secret: I couldn’t read an analog clock until I was in the sixth grade.

23

Lots of good advice here. I have a child somewhat like Whynot’s and so can tell you that a hand’s off approach can work, depending on the kid.

My oldest son is/was a slacker. In 4th grade, he messed around and didn’t do his math homework etc. I partially blame the teacher, because the teacher never informed me of this, until April–not good timing.

Long story short, he was placed in “regular” level math for 5th grade. Within a week, he came to me and said he couldn’t stay in that class-and he knew everything that the class was doing. I talked to his teachers (his math teacher said to me she didn’t know why he had been placed there. I said I didn’t know, but wondered if it had something to do with his poor homework and quiz scores in 4th. His standardized test scores were much higher). It was agreed that he would try the higher level math. He did and flourished.

But, see, I had a “stick” then–I said to him: you are being allowed to move up. It’s up to you to make sure you don’t lose your place in that class.

I never had to say another thing. He works differently than I do on things, and I needed to respect that. I fret about his lack of organization, but he gets the grades and does well in class. <shrugs>

That isn’t quite what is going on here, I just dragged it in to show that there can be many different scenarios to solving this problem.

Good luck! Consistency and follow thru are the most important, IMO.

24

I’m making an appointment today with my son’s pediatrician for his annual wellness checkup. I’ll talk to her about what she thinks.

I thought last night about all of the responses I’ve gotten, and I regret that I may have come off as a bit snarky in my reply to Ferret Herder’s post. That wasn’t my intention, and I’m sorry, Ferret Herder.

With inspiration from WhyNot’s experiences, I talked to Little Butterfly about what it would mean for him to flunk the fourth grade. I didn’t directly refer to any embarrassment he might suffer from his peers because I didn’t want to influence him that way. He thought of it himself. From the look on his face, I could tell that the concept hit a nerve.

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Fantastic. It will mean a lot more to him that he thought of the consequences, and it’s not you being “mean” or “gloom and doomy”. Offer him lots of sympathy - honest sympathy, of the “I’d sure hate to be in your shoes right now. It must be kind of scary to think about what might happen. I hate it when I get in over my head.” and then let him know that he has the power: “What are you going to do to make sure you don’t flunk?” Let him try to solve his own problem, come up with his own homework plan. If he just gets stuck at “I dunno,” wait it out a bit and then tell him that “ask Mom and Dad for advice” is a permitted and encouraged strategy. If he decides to ask you for advice, put everything out as a possibility, and let him choose the course of action after discussing the pros and cons with you.

Think about it - what works better from your boss: “Dammit! I’m not getting the quarterly reports! From now on everyone stays an extra hour after work and the office party in canceled!” or “Not getting the quarterly reports isn’t working for me. What do we need to do to make the office environment more workable so we can all get things done and out of here in a reasonable time?”?

Who knows, he may know something you don’t. Perhaps he needs a snack and a half hour break after school, or perhaps he needs to start his homework right away and not lose momentum from the school day. Perhaps he’d like to stay after school an hour and do homework there. Maybe having quiet music on would help, maybe he needs silence. Perhaps he’d work best with blue pens instead of black. The key might be something so bizarre you never could have figured it out on your own.

26

Your story about how he forgets things instantaneously after doing them correctly is interesting. Have you tried other methods of memorization besides having him write things out several times? There are a lot of kids who do better using some other, usually more bizarre, method–shouting out multiplication facts while jumping on a trampoline, tapping a pen, or some such thing.

While it might well be laziness, it might also be that trying another method will help him retain more.

I read a book recently by a teacher who was busy helping a bunch of kids figure out their best study habits; she felt it was important to let them try a bunch of things and then take responsibility for knowing what worked best for them. It had a list of various things that helped different kids, and was really interesting. I can’t remember the title, sorry, but it was in the education section at Barnes & Noble and was something like “Help your kid succeed in school.” I’ll see if I can find it online…

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Thanks. And please don’t forget to come back and post the title.

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I’ve been looking, and I can’t find it. But I’m hoping to go out that direction anyway this afternoon, so maybe I can stop by the store and look (this depends on me winning the power struggle in our house; my 3yo needs to poop and is refusing, despite her tummyache and constant discomfort–long story, but she isn’t constipated, just very stubborn). I’ll resurrect the thread or email you anytime I figure it out.

29

What the hell is a ghetto doctoral degree? A doctoral degree with a diamond grille?

30

Wow. I admire you for being so restrained. I would have lost it when he told me he forgot his math book…

Is he on restriction from TV/video games?

My boyfriend has a 3rd and 5th grader. He 3rd grader is a chronic liar/slacker like your son. But yet, his mother still gives him free reign with the TV and video games… It’s no wonder he’s like he is. He has no consequences for his actions.

31

What the hell is a ghetto doctoral degree? A doctoral degree with a diamond grille?

32

That’s what my friends in law school called our degrees. I think we’ve been through this many times before but a J.D. is a professional doctorate. It is, however, considered a bit of a cop-out by Ph.d types because there’s no thesis and defense. However, we get to wear the purple at graduation while the “real” doctorates eye us sulkily.

33

Oh no, I didn’t take it that way at all. Trust me, I have no kids and am merely going by my limited experience in helping to care for/look after a niece, plus my own memories of being a kid. (And I see that Miller dealt with a more severe problem in time-telling than I did! :eek: We were quizzed about it in front of all our classmates in first grade and so it was made obvious to all who could and couldn’t tell time.)

34

Well, I’m really sorry, but I couldn’t find the book I was looking for. This might be it, but I’m not at all sure. I’ll describe the books very carefully in the hope that someone will recognize it.

I’m almost sure the author was a woman. She got involved in figuring out individual learning styles when she had a perfectly bright student who hated to read, and it turned out that reading severely bothered his eyes. Thus she discovered those colored plastic sheets (like theater gels) that some people put over their books, which enable them to read comfortably; their eyes can’t handle the black on white and need some other method. She offered a range of colors to several kids and a bunch of them were promptly happier.

From there, she went on to figure out more about these issues. Some kids need a small repetitive noise, for example; it helps them to tune out distractions and focus. So they’ll develop a pen-tapping habit or something that drives everyone else mad, but which is necessary for good studying. Others learn better while fidgeting or moving in some way, and so on. So she started encouraging her kids to try different tactics–experimenting with light, ambient sound, body position, and so on, until they figured out what worked best for each person. Then the student was responsible for making sure he did his work well, and didn’t indulge in unproductive habits (listening to music when he knew he needed silence, lounging when he knew he should sit, etc.).

There was a chapter for each sort of sensory need. And I hope this helps you figure out what book it is.

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dangermom, you are spot on with the noise thing. I remember finding when I was eight years old if that if I listened to music while I did my homework, I was able to work faster. My mother REFUSED to believe me. She thought it would distract me. sigh

I think it was because music shuts out all the background noise, so you can concentrate. I’ve found that Debussy’s “La Mer” is perfect for studying"

36

I surprised myself by not going completely ape-shit on him. I just calmly addressed the situation, which isn’t in my blood.

He’s definitely barred from TV and video games; he’s allowed to go on the computer but only to search for articles that are age appropriate to practice his reading.
As an update, I received his progress report today (sooner than I thought). It turns out the situation is far worse than I suspected. He has two F’s, two D’s, and two C’s. His GPA is a dismal 1.0. He managed to bring home both his planner and his math book, though, and seemed truly disturbed by his own grades. At least it’s something.

37

This sounds very much like material presented by Barbara Meister Vitale. Check her book “Unicorns are Real” on Amazon, and good luck.

38

That’s not it, but it might well be very similar.

39

I’m with the other posters who get strong ADD vibes here. A regular pediatrician would not have the expertise to diagnose ADD or other learning disabilities, so please don’t rely completely on the pediatrician’s opinion – especially if she says that she does not think your son has ADD. Instead, you could ask her to recommend a neuropsychologist who has experience evaluating children for ADD and other learning difficulties.

OK, “being easily distracted” – right there, your own observations indicate that ADD might be a factor. But this sounds like something else might be going on – and it does not sound like laziness at all. I suspect there is “a name for that.” Again, a good pediatric neuropsychologist should be able to come up with that name, and with ways to deal with the problem.

There are a lot of very good books about ADD and other learning challenges, if you want to look into this. A recently published book that might help you is The Mislabeled Child, by Drs. Brock and Fernette Eide.

One other comment: you may already realize this, but children with learning difficulties can also be gifted learners. The sad thing is when ADD or learning disabilities mask the gifted abilities. There are many books and articles about this issue. A good list can be found at the Twice Exceptional page of the website Hoagies’ Gifted Education Webpage.

And a final thought: I think you may be letting your son’s teachers off the hook too easily for their failure to let you know the extent of the problem in a timely manner. It is not fair to you or to your son that the problems he has been having went on as long as they did without the teachers communicating with you. That communication is part of their job.

40

My smart 4th grader is highly agitated that she can’t keep the times tables memorized. We drill them with flash cards while she’s hip-hopping around the room, and I got her 1 “multiplication rap” audio CD which she’s proclaimed is lame. I’m still trying to track down the one which was on NPR a while back (some dad in Maryland produced it) because I remember it having more cred.

Movement while memorizing seems to help her.