So My Wife Wants To Live in an Apartment

In My Humble Opinion
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This thread: Noise complaint from nieghbors?! What!? - In My Humble Opinion - Straight Dope Message Board prompted me to ask a question that probably deserves its own thread.

The Background
I am a country boy from North Cackylacky. I have never lived in a large city. Beyond a period in college and shortly thereafter, I have never lived in an apartment. I lived at home for a while, then rented a house. Then my wife and I bought a house.

My wife grew up in Chicago, lived in Boston for a decade and then moved down here. She is use to apartment living in the middle of a city near public transit. She’s a strange lass, but I love her.

We both work full-time as professionals and are pursuing our MBAs. We should graduate, Og willin’ and the creek don’t rise, in August of 2010. Whereafter we plan to sell our house, take the equity we’ve built and move to a large city. While I’m not sure I trust the idea of letting someone else get you where you need to go and living in a much denser population, I’m willing to give it a go, because worst case, we move after four or five years.

The Questions

The thread mentioned at the beginning of the post refers to the problem of noisome neighbors in an apartment. But I have questions beyond that.

Are there apartments in large cities that one can purchase instead of merely renting? Do you tend to get more or less bang for your buck in terms of $/sq foot, or the amenities? (IE: Wood floors, granite counter-tops, etc) in an apartment or a house?

If one can purchase apartments of this type, are they less likely to have the sort of shenanigans that go on in the sort of apartments one rents in college and one’s early 20s and that are described in the above thread? If not, does price tend to screen some of this out even when renting? I realize that living in a large city is more expensive than living in a rural area. My back-of-the-envelope figuring is that to have a comparable size (1200 - 1400 sq. ft) we’re probably looking at $2500/month in rent as a low-side. Is this reasonable? What sort of place would that amount get one in a reasonably large city?

So, Dopers, if you live in an apartment building for professionals in a reasonably large city, tell me about it. Thanks.

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I figured that out just by looking at your username.

Now I’m all thirsty.

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Those are called condominiums. The bad thing about those is that if you get tired of your neighbors, you’ll have a much harder time of moving. And (at least a few years ago) they were a bad investment compared to a house.

The upside of renting is that if your plumbing goes haywire, it’s someone else’s job (and expense) to fix it.

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Condos are like apartments but you own them, those are pretty common in most big cities. Also in some places like NYC they have co-ops which are like apartments that you own but those are not as common. I believe co-ops tend to be very expensive too.

With a condo normally you have to pay extra fees to maintain the area which is added on to your mortgage, taxes and insurance.

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Location, location, location goes double for apartments in some cities (and most of your questions depend on the city). As a country boy you are going to be in pain paying the same for a 1200 sq. ft. place that you would for a house and a couple of acres in the suburbs or country. But if you buy in the right place, you will always be able to sell or rent it out in record time. And if you have to renovate, you’ll find yourself paying way less than you would with a house. If the roof leaks, everyone pays a part of it (hence condo fees). Also, not all apartment or condo complexes come with loud student/musician neighbors.

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North Cackylacky; is this a place or am I just not getting it again?

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I live in a condo in L.A. and I previously owned a house in North Carolina.

There are upsides and downsides to living in a condo. You do have to spend more time dealing with your neighbors than if you live in a house. Every month we have a homeowner’s meeting and major decisions are decided by a vote. We all pay a maintenance fee every month to cover basics like the elevator maintenance and the landscaping in front of the building. And if there’s a major expense we vote a special assessment to pay for it. If everyone acts reasonable about things, it’s not too bad, but it does require a little more effort to get along than if you own the entire property yourself.

Condos are more likely to be occupied by adults with jobs instead of wild college students. The only trouble we’ve ever had with our neighbors is once when the woman upstairs forgot to clean the drain on her back deck and rainwater backed up and began dripping into our bedroom.

As for condos not being as good an investment as a house – it depends where the condo is. The west side of L.A. is crowded and real estate is at a premium. Even small bungalows can sell for over $1,000,000. So there are lots of condos and there’s a healthy resale market for them. In other locations you might have a harder time selling. You tend to get more for your dollar with a condo than a house. We have a 2000 sq. ft. 3-bedroom condo in a great neighborhood. We could never have afforded a house that size here.

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If you’re new to the city you’ll be living in, don’t buy right away. There’s a lot to be said for home ownership - but until you get to know the city a bit, you’ve no real idea what will work for you.

One thing you might want to try: In a lot of condos, some of the owners rent out their places, either short or long-term (like an apartment). If you’re in the condo market, you might try to find a building you’re interested in, rent a unit from one of the owners, and buy something in that building later on if you like it.

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The problem with condos is that neighbors feel entitled to do annoying things “because they own it.” They’re not all bad though.

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It’s a humorous nickname for “Carolina”.

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2 thoughts:

Look for buildings with concrete floors. Sound-wise it makes a huge difference. My building has concrete floors, I’m really noise sensitive but I haven’t had any problems with my neighbors. This is the only apartment I’ve lived in where I’ve never heard the neighbors’ footsteps, TV, stereo, alarm clock, etc.

Some buildings (condos and as well as rentals) are more strict than others when it comes to noise and general shenanigans. Some places no one gives a shit, some places you’ll get a phone call from management if you leave some packages in the hallway for 5 minutes. In addition some condo buildings put restrictions on the owners’ ability to rent out the unit (and I know of one here in Chicago that prohibits it) and that will affect the culture of the building. My condo building is at least 30% rentals, chances are you’ll have at least one renter as a neighbor. In my case it’s not really a problem, the building is pretty strict about noise and the renters are mostly grad students, but just beware that you may still be around renters even if you buy.

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It is the drink of Og himself, isn’t it?

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Nitpick alert:

Noisy, not noisome.

Noisome means smelly, which isn’t exactly a great quality in a neighbor, either.

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Speaking as a 12-year condo association prez, if you go for a condo, try to aim for the smaller ones. Typically they are large single family homes that have been converted. There are only eight units in mine.

That way you will have minimal common element expenses (like a pool, elevators, miles of hallway carpeting that gets vacuumed and shampooed at your expense, acres of lawn mowing, etc.) that you will find in big hundred-unit buildings. Moving into a small building also makes it easier to get on the condo board where you can help steer the ship instead of just complaining about the bumpy ride. There’s a better chance you’ll be nice and friendly with all the other residents in a small building.

Get the condo docs and bylaws before you buy a condo.

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This is good advice. If nothing else we’ll rent a place for the first year just to make sure we like the city and find the right place to live.

Thanks to everyone for the practical advice, there is quite a bit of good information, and a few things I hadn’t considered at all.

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In a co-op, you buy shares in a non-profit corporation which owns the whole building, and the shares entitle you to a perpetual lease for a particular apartment in the building. They’re common in New York because the state didn’t have a way to legally organize condos for a long time.

There are advantages and disadvantages to each type of arrangement. Co-ops in general take longer to buy and sell, and are more restrictive about what kind of improvements you can make to your own place. Because they are essentially private clubs, the co-op members can choose to whom they want to sell, and the fancier places may require an interview process and financial disclosures, to make sure you’re not crazy and can afford the maintenance payments.

Fewer banks are prepared to write co-op mortgages, because they’re less common than condos. But any large East Coast bank should be able to handle it.

ETA: One really nice advantage of the co-op structure is that, if the building itself carries a mortgage, whatever portion of your maintenance payments goes to cover the mortgage interest is deductible on your income taxes.

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Note–do not pick a ground-floor apartment.
Problems
[ul]
[li]Noise from above[/li][li]Prone to break-ins (crooks are lazy)[/li][li]Lots of foot traffic[/li][li]Street noise is worse[/li][li]Less privacy[/li][/ul]

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Unless you don’t mind those things. I’m a half level below ground (one of those english basement dealies) and it keeps me very well insulated in both summer and winter. This is DC so I have bars, but iron detailing is normal on 90% of facades here so it’s not unusual. If I didn’t have the ironwork, I would agree with the security issue.

I do like the unit on the top floor with a better view but that’s 4 floors up with no elevator and she tells me it’s hard to cool in the summer and the electric bill is twice mine.

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One thing I haven’t seen mentioned:

The top floor of a multi-unit building is usually quieter than the lower floors. Noise from above seems the most annoying, in my experience, and if you’re the top unit in the stack, well, there’s no one above you, right?

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Along the lines of what sugar and spice was saying about concrete floors and quiet - older apartment buildings that have been kept up nicely are something you should keep an eye out for. Thick walls, nice closets, real kitchens, maybe some ‘charm’ thrown in there make for a place you can be downright comfortable in.