Canadians can wave their flags and talk about how proud they are of their country. When Americans do it we’re jingoistic.
Marc
Heck, we’ve had Quebec politicians frequently complain about people expressing patriotism. You get that sort of thing.
LonesomePolecat:
Dieppe was a battle fought on August 19, 1942. About 5,000 Canadian troops invaded the German-held French port of Dieppe, with the objective of destroying various military installations, including a divisional headquarters. The Allies at the time were under considerable pressure to do SOMETHING to fight the Germans in Europe, so smaller raids of this sort were being carried out. This was to be the largest raid yet.
The raid was an unmitigated catastrophe. Air and artillery support failed to effectively support the troops in the face of fierce Luftwaffe resistance, and lost over 100 aircraft in the bargain, and the troops arrived too late to use darkness as a cover. The raid at the main beach was stopped right at the water, where the troops were slaughtered on the sands. A second raid at Pourville went better, with the Royal Saskatchewan and Queen’s Own Camerons driving inland, but running out of steam without the other force getting anywhere. Commandos also destroyed German batteries at Varengeville, but without the main force getting anywhere, it was for naught.
Virtually the entire force was a casualty of one kind or another; 907 dead, 1200 wounded, 1800 captured. It was a humiliating defeat. Curiously, Dieppe has become the most famous Canadian battle of the war, more so than the ones Canada WON - Falaise, Juno Beach, Cassino, or anything else. It certainly played some part in teahcing the Allies lessons that would come in handy during Operation Overlord. But the price was awfully high.
As is typically Canadian, the battle has earned a strange mythology about how Canadians were deliberately sent to die by the cruel British, who took back all the air and naval support. Actually, it was basically just a giant screwup, and the RAF sent hundreds of planes in support and lost scores of pilots doing it.
Oh, for Christ’s sake, lighten up. Believe it or not, there are people who live in other countries, and they’ve got just as much right to take pride in their national heritage as we do. Quit looking for an excuse to be offended.
Cite?
Well only for a few more years. The currency (except the $1) will all be undergoing changes in color. For example, the $20 will have a light purple shade.
Lighten up? Would you be so kind as to point out to me the part of my post where I said it was wrong for Canadians, or anyone else for that matter, to fly their flags or take pride in their national heritage? Wait a minute, you can’t because I said no such thing.
I’ve seen more then one thread here on the SDMB where people have complained about the number of flags flying around the United States. I have yet to see any thread complaining about Canadians and their flags. When Americans show the same amount of enthusiasm it is an example of jingoism.
Marc
I have lived in both the States and Canada. (The States for the first 18 years of my life, and Canada ever since…which would be four years). I live in Halifax, so this is probably biased towards the east coast, but I have a few observations. First of all, I would NEVER ever move back to the States. I find the quality of life in Canada much better. This is related mostly to people’s attitudes. I think that Canadians tend to be less stressed out, a bit less hard working (although I’m not calling them lazy), and a million times happier and friendlier. Canadians tend not to take themselves too seriously and to keep things in perspective (as opposed to a lot of uptight, self-righteous Americans). It is a cultural difference that I think is reflected not just in the people that you meet on the street, but also the people that you work with, and it is carried up all the way through the government. Look at the difference between American and Canadian foreign policy, for example. Most Canadians take pride in their relaxed, friendly, mind-their-own-business attitude. You’ll also notice that Canadians all love to kick back and relax at the end of the week. No matter how much work they have looming over their heads, most people will take Friday or Saturday night off to relax (or hit the bars).
I knew it!
Too many Americans don’t grasp the distinction between honest patriotism and chauvinism. You are quite obviously looking for an exuse to be offended. Now go outside and play. The grownups are trying to have a conversation.
In the US, more than 1 out 10 people is African American. There are hardly any in Canada. This has resulted in some major cultural differences.
Hardly any? Not to doubt ou or anything, but I’d be interested in cites with the actual statistics.
I really don’t understand why you’re being so belligerent. I didn’t insult Canadians, I didn’t insult Americans, and so far as I know you’re the only one who was offended by what I said. If anyone needs to go outside and play it is obviously you since you are having trouble maintaining a civil discourse.
So my comment really wasn’t far from the truth, was it? Canadians can wave their flags, wear their “I’m Canadian” t-shirts, and brag about their health care system without being accused of chauvinism. When we do it in the United States those are examples of jingoistic behavior instead of honest patriotism.
Speaking of which, what is honest patriotism?
Marc
Okay, I decided to not be lazy. According to the statscan website, in '96, 2% of our population was black. Astounding. Maybe I had a different impression because I live in a highly metropolitan area. I’d still like to see American stats, though.
The figure I hear quoted most often is approximately 10%.
As for Canada, I often hear that our largest visible minority are First Nations people. The figure I’ve heard quoted for them in news stories and encyclopaedia articles is also 10%, though as I as wading through Statcan’s labyrinth of data, the figure actually seemed much smaller. There were about 799,000 aboriginal people in Canada in 1996, when our population was at 28 million. It works out to about 2.8%.
This makes them larger than our black population, but according to the visible minority statistics, people of Southeast Asian descent (including Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, etc) were over 1 million in 1996.
Our total population of visible minorities in the 1996 census was 11%. Statcan doesn’t have any information from the most recent census up on its site.
I think there’s a fundamental misunderstanding on this message board about Canadians and American domestic policy that ought to be cleared up.
In situations where our two countries interests are directly tied together – say, in NATO or in environmental policy – or when the American government attempts to push domestic policy on us, yes, we will complain about America, and we have that right.
Often, though, it may seem that Canadians are attacking American domestic policy, and are being chauvinistic. We are not really taking aim at America, but at a certain class in Canada that unrelentingly pushes American-style policy on Canada and devotes itself to the deregulation of our economy and the destruction of our health-care system.
This class represents the wealthiest segment of Canadian society, and the policies it pushes (always sold with the promise of being “Richer and more powerful, like the US”) will benefit that moneyed class alone, and reaches the politicians through lobby groups and social networks, and sells its ideas through a very concentrated media. There is also a colonial mentality attached to it – that Canada is an embarassing backwater, and things are better somewhere else.
These views are profoundly out of touch with most Canadians, if polls are to be believed. Canadians care more about jobs than GDP, the fair distribution of wealth, our medicare system, and the environment consistently ranks high as a priority. So most of us feel we’re losing this country and everything worthwhile to a group of powerful people who have fallen madly in love with America.
When we lash out at America, we are repudiating that viewpoint – attacking that class – more often than we are attempting to dictate to America itself.
I can’t speak for the person who posted that, but for me it’s the belief that one should be loyal enough to one’s country to question the everything about it.
I’d like some cites for this. Especially the idea that there are powerful wealthy people who are pushing for an Americanization of Canada. I’ve never seen evidence of that, and we’ve exposed more than one myth along these lines (that the wealthy are conservatives and the poor are liberals) on this MB.
As for ‘destroying health care’, it seems like the the left is doing a pretty good job of destroying it already. The national average now for time spent on a waiting list for MRI scans is 9 months! If, god forbid, you ever have reason to suspect you may have a brain tumor, get back to me and tell me how well you think the health care system is working.
What is it ? About 39,000,000 Americans, the working poor that can’t afford or get health insurance? Way more than the entire population of Canada. These people would be quite happy to have the opportunity to get on a waiting list for MRI scans. Their health care system was destroyed the minute they decided to go to work. (I understand that if you are on welfare, that you are covered in the US).
**
This will be the last post I make on this subject. My comment about flag waving had nothing to do with the domestic policy of Canada or the United States. I simply noted that Americans are accused of bad nationalism because of our flag waving yet I’ve never heard the same arguement used against Canadians. It never occured to me that Canadian flag waving could be seen by anyone as an attack on the US.
Marc
Sorry MGibson, I think that might just be part of the price you guys pay for being the big dogs. Your bark is scarier than ours. Personally, I find most patriostism on both sides of the border annoying.
All right, this has gone far enough.
The differences between Americans and Canadians are subtle yet simple; I will present them as contrasts (from an American perspective).
1a.Canadians are scrupulously, heroically polite.
1b.Americans exhibit in social situations what we would term ‘balls’.
2a.Cheap Canadian beer(e.g. Molson Export, Labbats Blue) is head and shoulders above cheap American beer(Budweiser,Coors)
2b.Good American beer(Sierra Nevada, Red Hook, maybe Sam Adams) beats the shit out of ‘good’ Canadian beer(chiefly crap Quebecois microbrew)
3a.Ontarian women seem to be inordinately hot.
3b.America has no answer to this.