Are you sure you are Canadian? Even out of Klein-land, your “screw your neighbour” attitude overwhelms me. Yes, you are right. Ontario and Alberta give out more in transfer payments than any other province. But if it means that a farmer in Saskatoon or a fisherman in Gander doesn’t starve, then so be it.
Now let’s stick on the ORIGINAL topic, shall we?
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Hmmm. Lets see. The entire basis of your argument is because Alberta gets royalties from its Natural Resources (which are in high demand) we can’t bitch? We can’t bitch because the Federal Government truly thinks nothing of blowing $1BILLION here and $1BILLION there because we’re Alberta and we have money? We can’t bitch because a treaty that was signed has the potential to severely curtail one of our major industries because we have money? Alberta is part of this country. Our citizens pay their federal taxes just like anyone else. We can bitch if we damn well want to. Whats your problem? Are you jealous or something? Grow up.
Nope. No painting with a broad brush here. No sirree!
Nope. You’ve already made that abuntently clear. You sound like your fiiiine with it. And just to note, our dollar buys about the same as a dollar in PEI, our Government just has more of it.
Uh, yeah. Thanks for the advice. Thats why I spend $10 for medical insurance when I go to the US.
Look. Alberta is not having a free ride here. We have homless. We have unemployed. We have minmum wage workers. However, there is always going to be some regional differences. Since our resource sector has been doing OK the past few years (and contrary to what you may/may not think, it is not “booming” flat out right now) we have had a massive infux of people from other provinces. For a large part, they are uneducated, labor workers from back east. Our resource cities (Grande Prairie, Ft. McMurray) have virtually doubled in size over the past 10 years. Calgary, Edmonton and most other cities are growing at a phonemenal rate. Infrastructure costs. Maintanence costs. Health care costs. Show me another province that has popluation growth like this in the history of the country. Please. I haven’t researched it but I doubt there has been. Not all these people are working all the time and end up on the dole here when their job dries up. And it happens. And yes, we’re quite aware that we’re not hard done by like some other provinces. That doesn’t make us elitests.
Ralph Klein is a far cry from a socialist, but Alberta sure as hell could have done worse.
Oh, by the way. We’re going to bitch if we damn well want to. Live with it.
Not that I want to stay on this, and I think we can agree that ALL ACROSS this country we have reasons to be happy and reasons to bitch. I just want to address Kyoto in a roundabout way.
Ablerta has oil. Oil is taken out, water is a by product. Gov’t says that water must be replaced. Oil people bitch saying it will cost too much $$$ and economy will crash. Water gets replaced. Oil people realize that when water keeps pressure higher, more oil can be extracted. Profits go UP.
After extracting the oil, the natural gas is bled off and stored away. Gov’t says that natural gas must be used and not wasted in harming the environment. Oil people bitch saying it will cost too much $$$ and economy will crash. Turns out that there is a great market for Natural gas and oil people are making a mint off the natural gas.
Gov’t brings in Kyoto. Carbon Dioxide emissions must be curtailed. Processing oil produces mass amounts of CO2. Oil people bitch saying it will cost too much $$$ and economy will crash. CO2 is in demand and is in fact IMPORTED into this country for other uses. Oil company will eventually realize this and there will be yet ANOTHER market for them. Oil companies will get even richer.
Kyoto may cost $$$ in the short term to implement but in the long run it will not only help save the planet, but it will also HELP the economy, not hinder it.
And this is relevent because…?
It’s not Alberta’s oil, it’s Canada’s oil, and even after the transfer payments, Albertans receive massive benefits from the oil economy that the rest of the country doesn’t have.
Cry me a fucking river.
Sorry… I was referring to this:
I am not prepared to make this a Kyoto debate as I don’t know enough about it to make an informed decision. But thats the whole problem, nobody knows for sure. Anyone who says for certain that they know it is going to help/destroy the economy they’re lying.
And I think that is about as much Kyoto discussion as there should be said in this thread.
Bernse, I agree.
Wow… imagine that 
Not likely at this point. Probably better for the pit.
Any of still wonder why we bitch out here? I ain’t a Canadian because I don’t agree with our socialist masters back east. I’m just a rube from the sticks. Shut up and pay your taxes like a good little sheep and be grateful for the pitance we leave you with, right? :rolleyes:
Maybe if that farmer in Saskatchewan, or that fisherman in Gander, can’t make it where they are they should move to where they can make it and leave the farming and fishing to those who can do a better job of it. And more importantly, not expect others to pay for their lifestyle choices if they choose wrong.
Yes there are transfer payments, but where does that money come from? Taxes. You are paying less taxes than someone of an equivalent salary in a depressed region of the country (and I dare say probably getting a higher standard of services). So which individual is not paying their fair share?
Your attitude distresses me a bit too Uzi. We pay taxes for the benefit of all Canadians.
No, its Alberta’s oil. Resources are a provincial responsibility, not a federal one.
Uzi, provincial boundaries are decided by the FEDERAL goverment. Put as much red tape in there as you want, but you pay so many transfer payments because you are so well off compared to some other places. That comes from oil. The Feds distribute the money accordingly. If the arrangement wasnt a good one, then the feds might just turn Alberta into 2 provinces. One with the oil and one with the people like you that didnt learn in Kindergarten that sharing and helping others is a GOOD Thing.
Wow… that was a pit worthy rant. Sorry mods. I’ll stop all of that now. Uzi, grow up.
Of course we pay taxes for the benefit of all Canadians. But, if out of each dollar of taxes I pay I only ever see 80cents (and it’s probably less) returned to my region while someone else gets $1.20 then who isn’t paying their fare share? How long do you keep sending money to these ‘depressed’ regions before you expect them to pick up the slack and become productive? So, it is my duty to send money to them, is it not their duty to pick up their socks enough so I don’t have to continually do so?
I wonder why they don’t split up the power base in Ontario and Quebec then to make it more fair for the rest of us? Oh, wait a minute…They are the Federal Government!
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Get bent.
This hijack has gone far enough.
New thread started:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=149623
Becaus it is the RIGHT thing to do. It isn’t possible for everyone everywhere to be as productive. Where do you think Alberta would be without its oil? On par with Saskatchewan perhaps?
There is a reason somewhere gets $1.20 and you get $0.80. That is what being a COUNTRY, a COMMUNITY is all about. Everyone getting their fair share. You can’t see that this doesn’t always mean 1:1. I hope you never lose your job Uzi. Because I know that you would be too proud to accept UI or even Welfare no matter how difficult you may find it to get another one to keep you in the quality of life that you are used to. You pay to provide the safety net. You have the POTENTIAL to need it one day. Don’t begrudge those that do. I make alot of money. I pay alot of taxes. Would my life be personally better off if I paid less? Of course. Would my down on his luck neightbour’s be? No. And one day I might be there myself. To me making sure that everyone is fed, clothed, warm, and alive is more important that the new gas guzzling SUV you probably are dying to own if you don’t already. Hae some compassion. You might be alot happier if you realize that true success comes not in what you have in your bank account but the happiness you get in your heart from being a good neighbour.
Au contraire, Kniz (and that is about 5% of my French capacity! :)), several million Americans speak French, in Quebec, N.B., Manitoba, Haiti, Inini, St. Pierre et Miquelon, and numerous enclaves. Very few U.S. citizens speak French.
While I have no problem with our nation having laid claim to “American” as the adjective to describe itself and its citizens, just as “German” is proper either for an inhabitant of Bundesrepublik Deutschland or for an Austrian, Swyzerdeutsche, Lichtensteinian, Alsatian, or other German-speaking inhabitant of another country, in threads dealing specifically with other nations in the Americas, we need to be rather cautious not to exclude them from a name to which they have equal claim with us.
I leave for a few days, come back, and it’s turned into an east-west debate.
That’s been taken over into another thread. But I just wanted to say here that regional resentment is hardly unique to Canada. It’s certainly one of our similarities with the US, and in countries of any significant size.
Well, no, which explains why you don’t seem to understand what’s been written.
I think I did a pretty good job explaining the differences. If you don’t want to learn a bit about the country’s history you’re welcome to choose not to. It’s silly to say the two countries aren’t different; they quite obviously are, even though they’re similar.
If you honestly think Americans pay fewer taxes for the same level of income, you need to do some research. In fact, Americans get hit with a lot of taxes and user fees Canadians don’t pay; the income taxes are lower (in most states) but the IRS will get you in other ways. Furthermore, the differences between provinces and states among themselves are so different it’s really sort of silly to pretend Canada and the U.S. have monolithic taxation levels you can compare. A resident of Alberta or Ontario pays less tax than you would in many states. Here in Ontario the income tax levels aren’t that high, plus you’ve got no inheritance tax, government fees are relatively low, the Canadians federal government has lax capital gains taxes - it’s not a bad tax burden.
As to “Standard of living,” how are you measuring that, exactly?
I read what you wrote and, yes, they are different. Vastly different. What you fail to understand is that is what makes them similar. Between the regions of each country there are vast differences, too. If you were to combine both countries into one you’d still be left with regions that are different. A province like Nfld would fit into that combined country like the state of Hawaii does. Quebec like NewYork, Alberta like Texas (wait, we are already like Texas :D). What I fail to understand is why you think we are special because our differences aren’t the same as down south which deserves the special protection of a separate country. Now that being said, I am not suggesting we combine them, but it makes no sense to not have an economic union like Europe is moving towards here in North America. What Europe is doing is taking all those relatively small countries (analogous to our provinces/states) and combining them into a large single market. I think we could do a better job of it here while still keeping our own Nationality for those who feel inclined to think that is important.
Re: standard of living
Go back and read those links I posted earlier if you want to know what standard of living means.
But, what is boils down to is this: The American keeps more of his money than the Average Canadian (user fees are irrelevant because you can choose not to use the service) and with the remaining money he keeps he can buy far more with it. Example: A family on both sides of the border make $40K a year and say they pay the same taxes. They then want to buy a minivan. A minivan may cost $30K Beaverbucks in Canada. In the US it would cost $22K in Greenbacks. At the end of the day the American family keeps $8K in their pockets which they can use for other things like paying down their mortgage, buying groceries, taking a vacation, etc. I watched a W5 episode many years ago comparing this very thing between two similar familes living across the border from each other in Ontario and Michigan(might have Illinois). They each made about the same amount of money, they each spent that money on similar things, yet the American had the new house, the new car, and far less pressure on them to make ends meet.
So, while you talk about quality of life are you seriously suggesting that money has nothing to do with it? It isn’t everything, but it is important.