We don’t know precisely what any bill will say until it’s written. How is this any different?
Technically, they already have carte blanche to pass whatever legislation they want (within the bounds of the U.S. Constitution), by virtue of the fact that they were elected. Congress doesn’t need to ask the American people’s permission before doing their jobs.
So Congress shouldn’t pass any legislation except when their approval rating is high?
I’m taling about why people have fears or concerns about the health care plan being pushed by Obama and Congress. This to belie Lobohan’s assertion that Republican lies are why the health bill is struggling.
If you want to argue about whether or not peoples’ fears are justified, or whether or not the health bill is no different than any other (quite a stretch, that one), you’ll have to find someone else to argue with as I’m out for the night.
Every bill is of course unique in its own way, but in the points I replied to you seemed to be arguing (1) that it’s some sort of big secret what the health care bill will say, and (2) that Obama and Congress are somehow asking for special powers in creating this bill. I see no real evidence for either of these.
The GOP response reminded me of the old Johnny Carson editorial response skits where he wore a hunting cap and coat. It’s hard to pick a winner between Bobby Jindahl and last night’s stiff.
But they are. Most people favor a public option when they are informed about it. Government takeover is a lie. Death panels is a lie. Public funding for abortions is a lie. Free healthcare for illegal aliens is a lie.
The major republican arguments against healthcare reform are lies. Those that take them to heart are basing their actions on lies.
Do you think shrieking and sobbing middle class people were motivated by careful weighing of the facts? Republicans aren’t as a rule the smartest bunch, but they aren’t blubbering incoherent children. They’ve been moved to hysteria by lying shitbags on the right.
Well, that’s a myth too. My understanding is that the health insurance industry as a whole returns about 3% profit. That is almost as low as the grocery business, one of the lowest profit businesses around. If these guys were making 15 or 20% profit, sure it would be a cut and dried case, but it isn’t.
And reading further down the thread, I see that Starving Artist made exactly that point. The fact is, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of waste to squeeze out of the system, even with the private insurers rationing care as they do. It’s a tough problem. I would be happy to see the indigent and uninsured covered by the government, just because it is the right thing to do. In a way, we already have such systems in place. I myself am uninsured and pretty much broke, and recently fractured a bone in my wrist riding my bicycle. I received, free or charge, what I would consider excellent care at the LA County/USC public hospital. Did I wait a long time? Yes. Was I seen by good doctors in a first rate facility? Yes. Do people in every part of the country have access to a place like LA County/USC? No. There is the problem, and perhaps the solution. Better local public hospitals would do a lot to ameliorate the problem.
Do you, or Starving Artist, have a cite for this? I would be interested in seeing it…
And note that the partnership here between the county and a prestigious private university is a good combination. The county provides the funding, and the university administers the care. The school gets something out of it, in that they have a place for their doctors to do residency, and it serves as a research facility. This model should be used in more places, IMHO.
No cite, but it is a figure I have often heard as well.
And I notice that the capitalism haters of the world almost always express industry profits in absolute terms. “They are making BILLIONS zomg!!!11, its OBSCENE!”, but the figure is never stated as a percentage of revenue. They do this to the EEEEVIL oil companies all the time.
My favorite part was when he said:
Wait. No. That wasn’t it. Let me check my notes. Ah, here it is:
Whatever. I was close.
That’s exactly what President Obama proposed. There’s also a public option and some talk about tax credits but they’re only one component. In fact, the only thing the White house has been clear and consistent on is that the most important thing is to pass legislation creating oversight to force insurance companies to live up to obligations. Maybe you should watch the speech again? Or read it?
Everybody is talking about cutting waste within the medical system, by making medical care more efficient. We don’t have to do that in order to cut the cost of medical care. There are 4 major places your money goes when you receive medical care, and medical care suppliers and providers are only 1 of the 4. Your insurance company is another. The doctor’s insurance company is another, and lawyers are the other. You can pay exactly the same amount of profit to hospitals and doctors, but if you reduce the amount the others are paid, the cost of the whole thing goes down. That’s what health care reform is about, and I can’t see how anyone can argue it won’t be effective. How could anything BUT lower costs result if medical insurance providers are removed from the list of people making a profit from your medical care?
I like this one even better. It shows all the good we’re doing with all that extra money we spend.
I think that is one of the main problems though. Congress has no clue (this includes most of America) what EXACTLY he wants. Details would be a necessity for Congress to try and push any bill through that he will sign.
I listened to this part very closely. He was quite distinct when he said the bolded part.
But I have an HSA with a HDCP…so I am not covered under any of those circumstances. Am I out of luck, and will be forced into my husband’s employer’s plan, which is $200 more per month, and covers almost nothing that we need? Or will I forced into the public option?
The address was meaningless because first of all there are so many ways around things that it renders everything Mr Obama said as potentially useless.
For instance, if you state in your potential law illegal aliens won’t get coverage and then in another part of a bill, limit the ability to ask ones immigration status, your second part has completely overruled the first part.
Second thing is the ability to impliment any plan. If you can’t get the plan done before the next congressional elections you’re screwed, because you have another congress to deal with. I can’t see the economy getting any better yet, so you’re likely to have a change over.
If you can’t impliment your plan ASAP the next congress or president will overrule it.
I’m sure we disagree on where the line is drawn but there is a point where profit at the expense of others becomes obscene.
Well, aren’t illegal immigrants able to go to emergency rooms just as so many people do now. Don’t they already cost us millions?
