So my family is estranged from my father, myself less than the rest of him. (I’ll talk to my father on the phone now and then and even see him once in a great while). He has a few friends in the area but all the other relatives are 500 miles away. He doesn’t have any significant assets other than at least $10,000 in gold, has a townhouse with a mortgage on and a significant (5 figures) judgement to due credit card debt default that he hasn’t paid.
So what actually happens if I’m notified of his death and simply sit back and don’t do anything? I just don’t have the wherewithal to sort this all out and act as executor, I understand I’ll probably end up with nothing for assetts once the estate is closed. I can’t think of any personal items he has that I might want. My only thought (without consulting him) is to have him cremated and interned back to where he grew up and his mother and father are
I’m sure there’s clear cut rules on this and I’m more sure they vary from state to state, but I don’t think that your dead father can force your hand here. If you just leave it alone, I believe the bank will foreclose on the house and the credit cards (as well as any other bills, ie medical) will be sent off to collections. You’ll probably get phone calls from them, but you don’t owe have to pay bills that your father racked up, regardless of the sob stories the debt collectors tell you.
Having said that, you may want to find out if he has a will and what it says. How or if you approach that is up to you. I don’t know how that changes things if you want nothing to do with anything, but, if you want nothing to do with anything, you may want to know what your options are if he leaves you, say, his bank-owned house.
The other thing I will say, and only because you mention it, is that if the gold is the only thing of worth, that a plan is made for it. Either he gives it to you/all the kids or [whatever other thoughts you come up to have it not be there]. I’m just thinking that if the bank comes to repo the house, let them have his old clothes and worn out couch, but there’s no point in letting them have 10k in gold. That shouldn’t be there when they get there.
If your father has the gold, you cannot take it if he has an outstanding against him. The assets of his estate must be used to settle his outstanding debts.
If no one wants to be executor, the courts will appoint one. The executor will sell the gold, pay off the debts, and collect a fee. If anything’s left, they’ll pay the heirs. The advantages of you being executor is you’ll save the fee and you and the other heirs may get any payout sooner.
I believe that if you are named as he executor and only heir, you can just go in and take the gold coins and not say anything about them, as well as any other property of value or interest to you. . Unless the creditors somehow know that he was supposed to have them, you will not be challenged. (Executors do this all the time – often even if there ARE other heirs, but may have to answer to them.) The executor is allowed legally to charge the estate a reasonable fee for the service, as well as any associated costs of executing the will. Just say you took some personnel effects in lieu of cash, of which there wasn’t any. You will not be held responsible to pay any of your money to resolve any debts.
In at least some states, the executor’s fee has to be court-approved–just taking valuable assets would be construed as theft, misappropriation, breach of fiduciary duty, etc. Sure, you might get away with it, but if you don’t, $10K could be enough to make this a felony.
If the OP really isn’t interested in getting involved, then don’t. Nobody can force you to inherit; even if a will bequeaths the townhouse, you can disclaim it. (Note, however, that a disclaimer of inheritance could cause a penalty if you need Medicaid or certain other forms of welfare within a certain number of years thereafter.) The bank and the creditors between them will eventually settle the estate (although in that case I would expect the gold to simply disappear and never be mentioned).
Sorry your father is estranged for the family. That’s a sad situation.
You are making an assumption he doesn’t have a will and has not named an executor to his estate already, which might not be you at all. It could be another family member, a friend or a law office. His will, assuming one exists might leave everything to a charity. He might have purchased a burial plot too.
Since you do at least communicate with him, you should encourage him to have a will if he doesn’t have one, because you want to avoid probate and all that. You should talk with an attorney about it to see how to proceed.
Let’s assume he did all this already and named you as executor, there really isn’t anything for you to do, since you’d use an attorney for it all. A realtor would sell the home. You could hire a company to come clear everything out of it, if you really don’t think there is anything there of value. They could have an auction.
I don’t know much/anything about this kind of stuff, but if dear old dad isn’t worth anything, is there any reason to get involved? Especially if you’re estranged? Just for kicks, if he’s upside down on his house (by more than what’s in is worth) and beyond that just has a bunch of unsecured debt, would the kid(s) actually get anything out of it? If they won’t, wouldn’t it be the same to just let the bank handle it on their own? They’re going to get everything anyways, might as well let them do all the legwork and deal with any issues that might pop up along the way.
Regarding the gold, I purposely kept what I was saying somewhat vague, and lets face it, for most people in a similar situation, if they knew that dad had a shoebox of cash in his closet, I think most people would grab it and let the bank have the rest.
However, tax implications aside, that’s for another thread, there wouldn’t be anything illegal about his still living father giving it to him. Perhaps the next time you talk to him on the phone, bring it up. Again, ignoring any kind of tax implications or family politics involved in splitting it up (or legal ramifications of when or how it leaves the house), if he’s just a pile of debt and a bag of gold, it seems like the bag of gold shouldn’t be there when the bank shows up to foreclose.
Don’t get me wrong, it would be different if he had no unsecured debt and this little bit of extra cash/gold would make the house his/yours free and clear. But, as it stands, it’s not going to change anything at all, from your perspective, if it’s just sitting there. The bank will foreclose with him owing 90,000 instead of 100,000 big deal.
And, as some others mentioned (if you want to be a bit morbid), you could ask if he has a will or not.
I too am sorry to hear about your father’s situation.
As to what happens if he dies and no heirs gets involved, I see at least three possibilities:
A court appointed executor liquidates the assets at auction. The bank and credit card companies file claims against the estate. The city or county might also file a claim for for unpaid taxes. Lawsuits and/or foreclosures may follow.
Nothing happens. The home and its contents sit abandoned in probate limbo. The bank and credit card companies write off the debt. The legal fees for seizing the properties exceed its value, so the tax collector defers action.
Saw a documentary on this in LA county. If nobody claims the body , they cremate it and hold on to ashes for a year (I think). After the year the ashes are buried in a grave with other ashes from other unclaimed bodies. For the stuff owned by the person they also keep that for a little while in case a relative or friend claims the stuff. After that it’s sold off.
We have actually discussed the idea of turning the gold over to me before his death, because he earlier borrowed money from me about equal to that amount on an oral agreement. I know enough not to go to just take it if he passes.
He has a will. I am named executor with myself and my sister split 50/50
Without getting into details because they’re not important, he brought the estrangement on himself through criminal actions involving another family member. I was not involved or even aware of it until much later so I’m the one remaining on best terms with him.
The whole planning a funeral thing is not something I think I can deal with, but not having talked about it with him I feel the proper thing is returning his remains to his home town 500 miles a way where his parents rest and most of his family is.
We have no real immediate use for the townhouse since we own our own house In some ways even if I wind up assuming payments with no equity left I guess real estate is a good investment and it could be a no-maintenance crash pad up home up north here if we retire and be snowbirds, but I don’t really want to be a landlord and I’m don’t know if rentals are even allowed by the HOA.
I don’t believe that there is anyway for the state to force you to act in order to close out the estate or burry the body. However there is no legal way for you to just wander off with the gold and screw the creditors. Any assets he had at death belong to his estate and must be used to settle any debts he died with. If and only if the debts are satisfied, including any funerary expenses, do the heirs get access to what’s left over. If there is any chance of anything being left over it is better that you manage the estate since the government is very good at making sure there will be nothing left.
What’s the difference between wandering off with the gold, and an oral agreement between him and his father where Dad outright gives him the gold? Let’s say they had the conversation an hour before his health went downhill, and he died before having a chance to update the written will.
It would turn into a legal version of He Said She Said. Yet, the fact that it happened wouldn’t implicate the OP of committing fraud, would it?
I would hope the gold is in a secure place, like a safe deposit box, where it cannot be easily stolen and not just lying around the house; otherwise it may not be there when the executor, whoever it is, goes to deal with the estate. :smack:
I remember a case in Michigan, in the late 80’s when I lived there, where a man died without relatives. Well, he had relatives but they weren’t involved or in contact. So the court appointed someone to settle the few affairs he was thought to have. He lived in a room at the YMCA.
The deceased was mentally ill, but that didn’t mean he was stupid. Turns out he did investing by mail and had at least a quarter million dollars. Of course then supposed relatives started coming out of the woodwork, at least five hundread or so. This made the papers big time and was turned into an episode of “Unsolved Mysteries” Some first cousins in Texas were traced and turned the money down, they were well off and didn’t feel right about taking it. So it went to some second cousins, retired teachers I think, who took the money.