We have something like that already. It’s called conception and birth.
Zionism was not a popular idea in the first part of the 20th century (pre WWI). There were a few who promoted it, but they were British, not American, and had little success in garnering support for their cause in this country. It finally caught on as a popular thing to support, but the large majority of Jews who migrated to the new Israel were Russian, and for good reason. The nirvana of the shtetls of Siberia that the OP refers to were basically sporting grounds for Russians, who regularly conducted pogroms and purges there, so it’s no wonder that when the opportunity came to get out of Dodgesky, they took it, not so much because of the idea of Zionism, but because nearly anyplace would have had to have been better for them.
The idea of a Jewish homeland was not the result of the actions of Nazi Germany, but rather the ultimate outcome of the partitioning ideas for the Ottoman Empire prior to WWI. Nearly everyone involved thought it would be a good idea, with even the Arab countries paying it at least lip service. The glaring flaw in the plan was that most of the people involved in the partitioning notion thought it would be a grand idea if European christians governed Muslim and Jewish states. That idea has led, in large part, to the mess we are in today in the Middle East. I would suggest that the OP read the book “A Peace to End All Peace” (among others) before ignorantly yammering on about events about which he is clueless.
Two pages on thread designed to piss people off. It worked well. a joke thread but not funny.
Maybe my whoosh button is stuck, but I don’t THINK this was a ‘joke thread’…I think it was a thread that simply went really, really badly for the OP. Certainly if s/he meant it to be a joke thread they have done a piss poor job of coming back and saying ‘whoosh!’…
-XT
The shtels in Tsarist Russia weren’t in Siberia, they were in what was called “the pale of settlement”, which was in European Russia, the Ukraine, Belarus, Poland, and Lithuania. And the total immigration in the First Aliyah was about 30,000, and the Second Aliyah was about 40,000., so that’s really not small numbers.
I predict this goes exactly as the OP envisioned. 
Well, no insurmountable reason at least.
No, its got nothing to do with it at all. :rolleyes:
Yeah because that was exactly what was happening between WWI and WWII. :rolleyes:
Sure they are. Look where we were 30 years ago and look where we are today. There will always be wingnuts that want to change things, heck we have folks here in the USA who are still fighting the Civil War.
The only thing worse than a million Palestinian refugees is a million Palestinian refugees, a million Jewish Refugees and an shooting war in the middle east. Israel isn’t going anywhere unless you are ready to commit genocide.
How about the two state solution?
You seriously think that Israel doesn’t rely on foreign (read American) aid? The US sends Israel about 20% of its military budget but its not the money they receive these days that really makes the difference, its the technology and the military advantage of the hundreds of billions of dollars (in present day terms) that Israel has received over the decades. If America had sat on its hands, it is not at all certain that Israel would still be in the negotiating position it is in today.
Can’t we give them a red state?
There is a button in the top right corner of every post that you can click to report the abuse. I don’t know if a moderator is going to come down very hard on anyone abusing you unless it gets really out of hand or you use that report button.
So, if they ever gain the will or military ability then they can go ahead and do something about the situation? Seriously WTF does arab military incompetence have to do with this argument or any argument. Are we still operating under a spoils of war system?
That Europe was happy to dump the Jews on the Arabs but the Arabs were less than thrilled by the prospect?
I thought that Herzl was not exactly on board with how things played out. He wanted to ask permission from the Sultan for a homeland and he thought he would get it too.
It may have just been to spite the Christians but Saladin invited the Jews into the middle east, point being that the arabs don’t have some genetic hatred of jews, just a lot of missteps and bad feelings.
Yeah but noone took the notion of an independent state seriously (not even Herzl) until the balfour declaration.
There were also Chinese living there, so what? Are you denying that there was a large wave of Jewish immigrants after WWII?
Well for one thing the rules sorta changed with the end of WWII and the creation of the UN. There is a sort of historical line drawn in the sand there and the state of Israel is straddling that line.
You have my deepest sympathies.
Two things. First, Saladin wasn’t an Arab, and second, there were a lot of Jews in the Middle East long before Saladin.
By rednecks are you talking about the miners who were trying to unionize? Cuz I think people think of seomthing else when they say redneck these days.
Did moses ever see the promised land, I thought he died before that and Joshua led the tribes into the promised land.
The way it was communicated to me was that if the Aliyahs were calling for Jews to come to set up a homeland in Brazil, it would not have been anywhere near as successful in attracting the critical mass of people necessary to birth a nation.
I don’t think it was a whoosh, in the light most favorable to the OP, he meant to say something about how Israel was built in the wrong place.
Well, anyway, point being that the arabs (and kurds) don’t have some genetic hatred of jews, just a lot of missteps and bad feelings.
Well, c’mon! According to the A.H. dating method, they are in the14th century! Give 'em a break, willya!
It would certainly help their bargaining position if they posed a more serious threat. As it is, Israel doesn’t have to negotiate under terms they find unfavourable because they know they have the military advantage. As an alternative, the Arab nations could promise dramatically improved relations and trade, offering Israel a chance to significantly profit, but they can’t even bring themselves to do that, since the empty rhetoric about destroying Israel (someday) is useful.
Thanks. I was pointing out the OP’s reference and wasn’t clear on the historical locale.
Au contraire, if Israel hadn’t received American aid, it wouldn’t have needed to make so many concessions over the past 20 years, and would probably have fully annexed all of the West Bank and Gaza.
Haha those Palestinians are such sub-human scum not even other Arabs want them! Nice one.
Haha, would it not make sense that Palestinians should move to their fellow Arab/Muslim neighbors who have the same culture, religion and climate rather than the backwoods of Siberia? It the context of this discussion it would make far more sense and resolve the problem just as nicely as moving the Jews. So, given the amount of countries that would fit this criteria, I wonder why no one has made the offer for them to come, and if so, why they haven’t done so?
Thae Arab countries are deliberate about not providing any incentives for the Palistinians to give up their efforts to return to their original lands.
You are aware that there are Arab Jews? And that many such Jewish communities often predate Islam in the M.E.? And that many Jews were kicked out of quite a few Muslim majority nations?
They weren’t dumped. They were there first actually.
We really do need to have a talk about sub-human scum in the Middle East. Well said and courageously! It is not too late to amend the thread title, but it works ok at the moment.