[QUOTE=Missy2U]
I really think this bears repeating. If I decline something, accept it and move on - I do not owe anyone an explanation about a food choice/preference.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly. If the explanation has to do with a food aversion, you probably don’t want to hear it, especially not when you’re eating or about to eat. Most people don’t seem to enjoy discussing puke or diarrhea at the table…
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
I am not thinking of keeping kosher or being a vegetarian in the same category as being a “picky” eater. My questions are more about what makes a person so physically adverse to certain foods, not about choices made for religious or ethical reasons. Most of my kosher & vegetarian friends are far from what I would consider “picky.” Many of them truly miss the kinds of foods they avoid eating.
[/QUOTE]
But being vegetarian or keeping kosher does cause the same kind of issues as picky eating when eating at someone’s home or choosing a restaurant. There are some very common ingredients in home-cooked or restaurant foods (meat, poultry, some kinds of fish, and shellfish) that I won’t eat. If you and I are in a group who are trying to decide on a restaurant, I’m functionally equivalent to a picky eater who won’t eat those foods. It should be a distinction without a difference, but some people insist on treating the two cases differently- say that it’s OK to keep kosher, but not OK to not eat shellfish just because you don’t like it. I don’t understand why it should make a difference- either way, you know you have to find a place where that person can get something to eat that doesn’t include shellfish (or whatever ingredient).
I also don’t understand why it matters whether someone misses foods that they don’t eat for religious or ethical reasons 
One line I found particularly good when I had a restricted diet was, “Don’t worry, I’ll just enjoy it vicariously.”
[QUOTE=Anne Neville]
But being vegetarian or keeping kosher does cause the same kind of issues as picky eating when eating at someone’s home or choosing a restaurant. There are some very common ingredients in home-cooked or restaurant foods (meat, poultry, some kinds of fish, and shellfish) that I won’t eat. If you and I are in a group who are trying to decide on a restaurant, I’m functionally equivalent to a picky eater who won’t eat those foods. It should be a distinction without a difference, but some people insist on treating the two cases differently- say that it’s OK to keep kosher, but not OK to not eat shellfish just because you don’t like it. I don’t understand why it should make a difference- either way, you know you have to find a place where that person can get something to eat that doesn’t include shellfish (or whatever ingredient).
I also don’t understand why it matters whether someone misses foods that they don’t eat for religious or ethical reasons
[/QUOTE]
Because my point isn’t that I think it’s unreasonable for people to turn down food for whatever reason. My point is that I’m trying to understand the “picky eater” syndrome better. I am trying to get at what it is about the food that makes people so turned off by it, and how & why the reaction can be so severe. Keeping kosher DOESN’T mean you are necessarily turned off.
I agree, you may be functionally equivilant to someone who is picky eater, but I understand keeping kosher and which foods you can’t eat, but I don’t really understand the picky eater syndrome. What I am really trying to understand is the depth of the turn-off to the foods, and how it is that some people can have this problem to the extent where they will literally be made sick by a wide variety of foods. Where does this come from, and is it possible to solve the problem?
So, for my purposes of what I am trying to find out, your issues with keeping kosher are, well, not the issue! 
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
Because my point isn’t that I think it’s unreasonable for people to turn down food for whatever reason. My point is that I’m trying to understand the “picky eater” syndrome better.
[/QUOTE]
There have been a few studies done about why many people seem to find snakes and spiders “creepy” even though they haven’t ever had any bad snake or spider experiences. (I’m still looking for a link.) They are sort of like inherent fears that many if not most, humans seem to have and they seem to be associated with the disease-avoidance response of disgust. (Oh, here’s a link of some kind that I found while typing this post.)
I think that “picky eater” syndrome may be similar somehow. For whatever reason, the picky eater has developed a biological imperative that says “No don’t eat that!” to various things based on texture, taste and/or smell and when they encounter those things the disease-avoidance YUCK factor kicks in.
The link above (while dealing with snakes and spider type phobias) talks about “evolutionary pressures” and all sorts of stuff from associative learning to the “biological preparedness” theory.
I suspect that the inherent fear of snakes and spiders many people share is based on a similar brain function to the “there’s no way I’m going to eat that no matter what you say!” instinct that some people have.
That is a really interesting take on it…I think you may be onto something, there. It’s really an interesting question to me. Is it physiological? Psychological? A combination of the two?
I can explain some of my “pickiness” pretty easily.
When I was about ten, I scooped up a rather large amount of guacamole in a restaurant. I had not had cilantro before and did not know it was a common ingredient in guacamole. I’d MADE guacamole, and I knew exactly how it tasted, and I loved it. Cilantro has a soapy taste, and I sure as heck wasn’t expecting a mouthful of soap when I put guacamole in my mouth. I ran to the washroom and threw up. My brain told me I had eaten something “wrong” and my tummy acted accordingly.
I won’t eat cooked spinach by itself, because I once choked on a piece with a long stem. It caused me to launch my lunch in front of people. I’d prefer not to do that again. I’ll eat spinach if it’s in lasagne or if it’s raw in a salad, but I’m a little leery of it otherwise.
Cooked green peppers have a terribly acrid taste to me. Raw, they’re fine, but they’re very unpleasant-tasting cooked. I’ve also found that they “pollute” everything they touch, so picking them off a pizza, for example, doesn’t remove the problem.
Eggplant is a texture thing with me, as is okra. I’m not fond of slimy-ness or slipperiness in my mouth. (Make of that what you will.)
As for my veg-aquarian thing, I made the decision to stop eating meat mainly out of boredom. I was tired of cooking the same things over and over and wanted a challenge. It was an easy switch. Some months after making the switch, I had a small piece of chicken and, well, I got diarrhea. Since being meat-free wasn’t a hassle, I opted to stick with it.
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
Is it physiological? Psychological? A combination of the two?
[/QUOTE]
You should visit the science quesitonnaires at the BBC’s website. They had one on “disgust” that was kind of fun. They would show you pictures of things like a bowl of green goop, a bowl of red goop, and a bowl of blue goop and ask you to rank your disgust level. At the end of the questionnaire you could compare your results to theories that humans have some kind of inherent disgust for things that suggest disease.
From that bowl-of-goop example, the blue bowl of goop produced the least amount of disgust because the color is not one that is normally associated with disease in nature.
Same with studies about fear of snakes. Lab monkeys who had never seen a snake before, still reacted with fear when they were presented with a rubber snake, but didn’t mind the rubber toy that was shaped like a rabbit.
It’s some kind of imprinting that goes way, way back.
Here is a link to the “Disgust” questionnaire.
[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone]
Here is a link to the “Disgust” questionnaire.
[/QUOTE]
Thank you…I will check that out!
[QUOTE=LifeOnWry]
If everyone was as concerned as they claim they are about being polite, this would not even be an issue. The second the conversation veers from “no, thank you (plus simple reason if absolutely required)”
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No, the issue arises because of people like Anu’s brother-in-law, a member of the Indian-American community who refuses to eat any Indian food and this requires the constant accommodation of his family, who are all Indian and to whom eating Indian food is integral to their lives.
It arises because of Incubus’s girlfriend who
and who demands alternative food be prepared from Incubus and from his mother’s boyfriend.
And does anyone remember this epic thread? There it was shown that the issue arises when
Or Doreen’s sister –
Or Stonebow (I think it was) who actively tries to divert the conversation away from the subject of the food is that’s being eaten.
Or Sunfish’s acquaintance –
So, the point is not “some people don’t like certain foods.” Of course that’s true. In fact, I’ll go one step further – Everyone dislikes some food. Avoiding foods one doesn’t like isn’t the issue. The issue is the limited group of people who dislike so many things that it becomes a freaking issue.
And if I may quote myself from that old thread –
You shouldn’t be the one person in your social circle whose limited eating preferences become part of the logistics of every social occasion.
[QUOTE=LifeOnWry]
Cilantro has a soapy taste
[/QUOTE]
Well, to some people it does. To the rest of us it tastes nothing like soap. I’ve read that there is some theory that the “cilantro tastes soapy” phenomenon might be genetically based.
[QUOTE=acsenray]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeOnWry
If everyone was as concerned as they claim they are about being polite, this would not even be an issue. The second the conversation veers from “no, thank you (plus simple reason if absolutely required)”
No, the issue arises because of people like Anu’s brother-in-law, a member of the Indian-American community who refuses to eat any Indian food and this requires the constant accommodation of his family, who are all Indian and to whom eating Indian food is integral to their lives.
(snipped more similar examples)
[/QUOTE]
Um, isn’t that what I said? In all the cases you mention, SOMEONE has overstepped the bounds of politeness at some point. Whether it is the picky eater or the people dealing with him/her, someone has blown it.
In the cases you mention, they shouldn’t be issues. Take your first example. If this guy doesn’t want to eat the food he’s offered, and he refuses it without making a scene, there isn’t a problem. If he makes a fuss and demands accommodation for his choices, he’s rude. If he refused and didn’t make a fuss, but his hosts proceeded to question him and badger him, THEY are rude. It’s no skin off anyone’s nose if someone doesn’t eat what you offer. Even if you perceive it as an insult - and it MIGHT BE an insult - you can choose to let the subject drop without comment.
[QUOTE=acsenray]
Well, to some people it does. To the rest of us it tastes nothing like soap. I’ve read that there is some theory that the “cilantro tastes soapy” phenomenon might be genetically based.
[/QUOTE]
I have heard this, too, and it does seem that cilantro is unique in this respect. People have varying degrees of like or dislike of all kinds of diferent foods, but cilantro seems to fall into either “soapy taste” and “not even a trace of a soapy taste.”
[QUOTE=acsenray]
You shouldn’t be the one person in your social circle whose limited eating preferences become part of the logistics of every social occasion.
[/QUOTE]
Why not? If they’re willing to accept the social consequences of those limited eating preferences, more power to 'em.
In all those examples, I still think that they’d all be better off by saying “We’re going to eat Indian food; come along if you’re interested”, rather than kvetching about how so-and-so won’t eat Indian food like normal people should.
[QUOTE=LifeOnWry]
I have heard this, too, and it does seem that cilantro is unique in this respect. People have varying degrees of like or dislike of all kinds of diferent foods, but cilantro seems to fall into either “soapy taste” and “not even a trace of a soapy taste.”
[/QUOTE]
Some people who don’t like broccoli say it has a bitter taste. I don’t taste bitterness in broccoli when I eat it.
I suspect every picky eater is different.
Some people taste certain flavors in foods that others don’t. The soapy taste of cilantro is an example. Some people taste bitter flavors in broccoli or green peppers, which I don’t. I don’t like raisins, because I taste a metallic taste in them that Mr. Neville assures me he doesn’t. I don’t like white Bordeaux wine, because I taste a menthol flavor from the Semillon grapes mixed into it (and I hate the taste of menthol- too much like yucky cough drops). I’m told others don’t taste that in wines made with Semillon, but I most definitely do. If Mr. Neville drinks a beverage out of a plastic glass, he can taste an off-taste in it that I can’t.
Some people have had such a nasty experience with a particular food, the taste, texture, or smell of that food is ruined for them forever, as in a food aversion. My food pickiness usually has to do with food textures- there are certain ones I just can’t take. I don’t remember the incident that set that off, but I suspect it had something to do with my parents trying to get me to eat something, and me getting upset to the point of nausea (I have an anxiety disorder, so conflicts that some people would shrug off can upset me deeply). Or maybe I choked on some foods of a certain texture, like LifeOnWry did with the spinach, and got an aversion from that. I don’t consciously remember (conscious awareness that “this food made me sick” isn’t needed for food aversions to work), so I can’t tell you.
[QUOTE=LifeOnWry]
I have heard this, too, and it does seem that cilantro is unique in this respect. People have varying degrees of like or dislike of all kinds of diferent foods, but cilantro seems to fall into either “soapy taste” and “not even a trace of a soapy taste.”
[/QUOTE]
Some people who don’t like broccoli say it has a bitter taste. I don’t taste bitterness in broccoli when I eat it.
I suspect every picky eater is different.
Some people taste certain flavors in foods that others don’t. The soapy taste of cilantro is an example. Some people taste bitter flavors in broccoli or green peppers, which I don’t. I don’t like raisins, because I taste a metallic taste in them that Mr. Neville assures me he doesn’t. I don’t like white Bordeaux wine, because I taste a menthol flavor from the Semillon grapes mixed into it (and I hate the taste of menthol- too much like yucky cough drops). I’m told others don’t taste that in wines made with Semillon, but I most definitely do. If Mr. Neville drinks a beverage out of a plastic glass, he can taste an off-taste in it that I can’t.
Some people have had such a nasty experience with a particular food, the taste, texture, or smell of that food is ruined for them forever, as in a food aversion. My food pickiness usually has to do with food textures- there are certain ones I just can’t take. I don’t remember the incident that set that off, but I suspect it had something to do with my parents trying to get me to eat something, and me getting upset to the point of nausea (I have an anxiety disorder, so conflicts that some people would shrug off can upset me deeply). Or maybe I choked on some foods of a certain texture, like LifeOnWry did with the spinach, and got an aversion from that. I don’t consciously remember (conscious awareness that “this food made me sick” isn’t needed for food aversions to work), so I can’t tell you.
I don’t like most raw fruits or vegetables, Jell-O or similar gelatin-type things, or anything with a tapioca-pudding-like texture. Some of those things are usually desserts or starters, which people make less fuss if you don’t eat than if you don’t eat much during the main course of the meal. If worse came to worse, I’d eat the lettuce out of a salad (I dislike most other vegetables in salads) and have something I liked better after I left. (If that happened, it would most likely be because the main course wasn’t kosher- very few main courses involve raw fruit or vegetables, and few main-course dishes have the kinds of textures I object to).
My pickiness usually doesn’t create a significant social problem for me, and trying to fix it would be fairly unpleasant (do you enjoy eating foods that make you feel nauseous?), so I live with it. Am I missing something by doing so? Yeah, but everybody misses out on some things in life- life’s just too short to experience every possible good thing for yourself.
[QUOTE=LifeOnWry]
Um, isn’t that what I said? In all the cases you mention, SOMEONE has overstepped the bounds of politeness at some point. Whether it is the picky eater or the people dealing with him/her, someone has blown it.
[/quote]
Perhaps I misunderstood, but it seemed to me that you were saying that the only reason there’s a problem is that there is bad behaviour on both sides. My point is that even if no one is –
– the extremely picky eater is still a social problem.
No, they are his family; they already know what he likes and doesn’t like. He’s not a stranger whose tastes are unknown and is simply declining an offer at the first meeting. The problem is that in order to make him comfortable, they have to make special accommodations. They always have to eat what he wants. An adult should be willing to partake in the occasional meal in which other people get to choose the food, even if he or she doesn’t like the choices.
It’s not the insult that’s the problem. The problem is that the group always has to abide by the preferences of one person. That’s not how a social group should work. All members should be willing to take turns acceding to the eating preferences of the other members of the group.
[QUOTE=Lightray]
In all those examples, I still think that they’d all be better off by saying “We’re going to eat Indian food; come along if you’re interested”, rather than kvetching about how so-and-so won’t eat Indian food like normal people should.
[/QUOTE]
That’s just not realistic. The guy is Indian(-American). His wife is Indian(-American). His in-laws are Indian. When they all get together they want to eat Indian food. It is simply not an option to organize an important family occasion at which his attendance is optional. It is simply not an option to have him in attendance and offer only food that they know he’s not going to eat. The family is doing their duty by ensuring that (1) he is included in all their important occasions and (2) he gets to eat things he likes. He, however, is failing to do his duty as an adult member of society by imposing his personal food preferences on everyone at every single occasion.
[QUOTE=Lightray]
I still think that they’d all be better off by saying “We’re going to eat Indian food; come along if you’re interested”, rather than kvetching about how so-and-so won’t eat Indian food like normal people should.
[/QUOTE]
I’ve been mulling this suggestion over and the more I think about it, the more it alarms me. Just imagine –
“Hello, dear son-in-law, will you please tell our daughter that we’d like to have her over at our house for her father’s birthday. The whole family’s going to be here. You’re welcome to come too, if you want, but we’ll only be serving Indian food, so we’ll understand if you don’t feel like coming.”
– What kind of a cold bitch of a mother-in-law would do that?
Doesn’t sound cold and bitchy to me. Sometimes I wish my mother-in-law would do that. Instead, she invites us over for “our” birthdays (my husband and I were born 10 days apart) and makes his favorite birthday meal, beef stroganof, which she knows I don’t like. So I end up eating salad and plain noodles with butter and salt for my birthday dinner. Not that I complain about it or would ever dream of doing so to her, I just wish she’d make one of the 50 other meals I’ve eaten at her house and enjoyed (and told her they were delicious). Instead she caters to her son, who often criticizes her cooking. (He bitched about the meatballs that were from Ikea, the roast beef being too dry, about not having ham for Christmas dinner, etc. Yeah, I know. I kicked him under the table.)
[QUOTE=acsenray]
I’ve been mulling this suggestion over and the more I think about it, the more it alarms me. Just imagine –
“Hello, dear son-in-law, will you please tell our daughter that we’d like to have her over at our house for her father’s birthday. The whole family’s going to be here. You’re welcome to come too, if you want, but we’ll only be serving Indian food, so we’ll understand if you don’t feel like coming.”
– What kind of a cold bitch of a mother-in-law would do that?
[/QUOTE]
Why can’t she just say “This is what we’re having. Will you eat any of this, or would you like to bring your own dish?” Some people might not be comfortable having someone else bring a dish, but at least everyone gets to eat what they want, and can just enjoy each other’s company.
It would be convenient if he liked Indian food. It would be convenient if no one in a family who adds chicken stock to everything ever decided to become vegetarian, or if no one from a family who loved seafood and ham converted to Judaism and started keeping kosher. It happens though, and if you don’t want to cater to a person or let her make her own accomodations while enjoying your own meals, then you’ll just need to stop having outings with that person that involve food.