[quote]
“JWs believe the world is under Satan’s control.”
Again, this is BS. JW’s take the Third Commandment about graven images seriously, so they don’t salute flags. And since they believe that the only lordship to acknowledge is that of Jesus, they don’t serve in the military.
Really, don’t you people bother to check your facts first?
And I should check Preview first. <slaps self on the forehead>
Eve, and anyone else, in case you missed it above, here’s the link to http://www.watchtower.org, the official JW site, which provides huge amounts of information on JW beliefs.
Thanks, goboy, I hit submit instead of preview.
Here’s another link, directly to a summation of JW beliefs: http://www.watchtower.org/library/br78/index.htm
Andros, I can get away with posting on the SDMB at work (“It’s, umm . . . a fact-checking and research site!”). But I would have some SERIOUS EXPLAINING to do if I got caught on the “Watchtower” site . . .
Thanks, goboy, that doesn’t sound quite as nutty as what I’d been led to believe. Of course, I’m someone who doesn’t believe in ANY religions, but there are certain levels of nuttiness.
Thanks, Eve. I, too, am a total atheist, but it’s important to know what other people believe, if only in a “know your enemy” kind of way. 
A sidenote: Eve ,do your bosses check the Web sites you access that closely? At my job, they only care if you download porn.
Roder wilco, Eve. Here are some excerpts:
Goboy—No, they don’t actually monitor us, but the MINUTE I log onto a questionable Web site is the SAME minute our entire editorial board will stroll by my office.
Andros—Thanks! I wonder how do J’s Ws know that THEIR religion isn’t one of the false ones Satan is using to tempt them? And does God give any REASON for not using blood in surgery? Or is it just one of his adorable little whims?
This hasn’t been exactly refuted, so I should point out that it’s wrong.
Jehovah’s Witnesses specifically oppose receiving blood transfusions as per the link already posted in the thread. They have no problems with any medical procedure as long as it doesn’t involve receiving blood; they’ll take antibioltics, have broken limbs set, let you shoot 'em up with morphine after an operation, whatever. Sauron’s confused them with Christian Scientists and some other small sects.
The JW’s don’t believe in the Trinity, because the word Trinity does not appear in the Bible, even though there are plenty of Scriptures that support the concept of a Triune God. They believe that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force, even though there are many passages in the New Testament that describe the Spirit as having attributes of personality.
They don’t believe Jesus is God, even though there are at least two passages that explicitly state that He is.
You can show a JW these passages, and they still won’t see what is written right there in the Bible. They use a (deliberately) mistranslated version of the Bible, and believe that their founder’s commentaries on the Bible are the true key to understanding Scripture. To the point that they say that if you read the commentaries without ever reading the Scriptures, you will be “in the light” in two years, but if you read the Scripture without the commentaries, you will be led into darkness.
They also believe it this thing called “soul sleep”, which basically is the idea that human beings don’t have spirits, and after death we have no conscious existance until the Resurrection, after which the chosen 144,000 (all the tickets have been sold for that, BTW) go to a bodily existence in Heaven, to be in the glorious presence of God, good JW’s have an eternal bodily existance on a new, perfected Earth, and everybody else is annihilated.
They also believe that Christ was not physically resurrected, but basically created a “fake” body in order to make appearances to his disciples. They generally explain the empty tomb by saying something to the effect that the body disintegrated into gas. Which basically means that Jesus was a deceiver, deliberately misleading them to believe that He had, in fact, physically risen from the dead.
The one thing that strikes me most about the JW’s is that they can’t seem to deal with the idea of “mystery”. They can’t believe in anything that can’t be explained logically or rationally. Their religion seems devoid of spirituality.
In everything I’ve read about them, everything is about following the rules. I can’t quite figure their take on prayer, but if it’s true that prayer represents nothing more than a legal, contractual relationship, well, it sounds pretty bleak.
" . . . the chosen 144,000 (all the tickets have been sold for that, BTW) go to a bodily existence in Heaven . . . "
DAMN Ticketmaster!! I can never get through on the phone.
!!!
Am I the only one that finds this statement to be completely at odds with everything above it? The JW’s may be dogmatic and hidebound, even anti-spiritual if you like, but I would never use either “rational” or “logical” to describe their beliefs.
::: sees opportunity to witness to one of them thar heathen “athiests” ::::
::: clears throat :::
Uh, Eve?
I can get you a front-row admission, come the Big Day. Course there’s a couple of strings attached…
I’m guessing you aren’t a big fan of the Witnesses? Just a wild speculation…
I also speculate, based on nuthin’ atall, that you got your information from a somewhat…ummm…let’s say…less than * friendly * source?
stoid
I’m not a JW (or a Christian for that matter), but how do you know that their version of the Bible is mistranslated? Isn’t it possible that the other versions are the ones that are mistranslated?
I’d like to see those plenty of scriptures. As far as I know it all hinges on the “In the beginning was the word, and the word was God” quote. This is fairly widely accepted to be open to mistranslation, since apparently the original Hebrew had no concept of expressing simile/metaphor either written or spoken. There was no ability to say ‘like God’. All the other scriptures implying a trinity are vague to say the best, and at direct odds with the rest of the Bible, both old and New Testament. This is however a debate in itself.
No, they believe that the Holy Spirit is an active force, and could probably best be translated as ‘The Hand/Voice/Stomach of God’. In this way the Holy Spirit can be attributed with personality, just as I could attribute your hand with personality.
Again I’d like to see those passages. The only one I can think of is the one that says "In this the Father and I are one” or something to that effect. Not exactly explicit proof of them being the same person.
Can I have a reference for that?
Can I have a reference for that. I think you’re confusing Witnesses and LDS’s
More LDS philosiphy. Again, anything impartial to support this as JW belief?
I’ve never heard or seen that term before. Any JW literature that you can show me that actually uses this term?
Wrong, Jehovah’s Witnesses explicitly believe in the human spirit, albeit as something slightly different from the soul.
Wrong again. While Witnesses believe that there will be 144,000 (“the little crowd”) going to Heaven, the tickets for the resurrection are unlimited. (So you’re still OK Eve, keep trying that number, and remember to hold the line, your call is important to us. You are currently number 144001 in our queue)
No this is more LDS philosophy. JW’s don’t believe that even God has a physical body, and those who go to Heaven do so in a spiritual form. Do you have any references supporting the idea of a physical resurrection in Heaven?
Got one right anyway!
Wrong, everyone who existed pre-JC is automatically resurrected (except for Adam and Eve). Anyone who died post JC who never had a chance to hear ‘The Truth’ will be resurrected. It’s even a little vague as to what constitutes ‘unable to hear the message’, so it’s possible that the majority of people will be resurrected.
I’m not a baptised Witness, but I was raised a Witness before deciding I couldn’t handle the hypocrisy in that or any other Christian church, so I’m probably the closest thing this board has to a genuine JW.
There is one JW named dougiemonty that posts to the boards. He’s the only one I know of though.
Gaspode-
My main source is Walter Martin’t Kingdom of the Cults, not exactly an unbiased source to be sure, but he does quote actual JW writings and literature extensively enough that a reader can be reasonably sure he’s not quoting out of context. But all that I posted is definitely JW, not LDS, although the LDS do have similar types of beliefs regarding Scripture.
Also, try reading Acts and Hebrews for starters. I don’t have time right now to go through the Bible for chapter and verse, but I’ll come back and post again later with the appropriate references.
Also, again, I’ll have to post again later with the exact references, yes, it is verifiable that the New World Translation is a deliberately fudged translation. Meantime, if you can get hold of a copy of Kingdom of the Cults (and I’m not the greatest fan of Martin, because he is also anti-Catholic, but I did find the book very well researched and well written) you can find source documentation to support my assertations.
As I said, he quotes JW (and other sect) material quite extensively, enough that I’m satisfied that he wasn’t taking quotes out of context, as many fundies are wont to do.
Also, being for all intents and purposes a fairly recent convert to Catholicism, I have found that many “cradle Catholics” are very ignorant of many of the teachings of their own faith.(During my scrutiny prior to my confirmation last Easter, Father Francis stopped me a few times and said “There are a lot of Catholics who couldn’t answer that” when I responded to his questions testing my knowledge and understanding of Church doctrines and teaching) They learned what was taught in catechism, which is frequently woefully inadequate, and a lot of what I suppose you could call folk belief, but you would be amazed at the lack of knowlege and misconceptions lifelong Catholics who haven’t actually studied the Bible or the teachings of the church. I imagine cradle Jehovah’s Witnesses have a similar situation.
If you grow up in a particular religion you probably don’t have a lot of formal teaching in your faith, whereas converts usually make a serious study of a religion before they sign up, get dunked and get the free toaster.
Polycarp wrote:
I’ll be darned. “Jahovah” was given those vowels because they were the vowels of “Adonai”. I’d never thought of that!
But then, how did “Jahovah” come to be “Jehovah”?
My friend is a JV, and we’ve had many discussions about it in the past. She told me that they don’t celebrate Christmas because of its pagan origins. Also, she said that they don’t celebrate birthdays because some guy asked for someone’s head on a platter for his own birthday (it’s in the Bible somewhere, I just don’t know where or who it was). Her mom doesn’t like her to watch R rated movies because she thinks she’ll become desensitized.
She told me about this thing they do in church once a year. They pass around bread and maybe wine. The only people who can eat it are the “chosen ones.” They are in that 144,000 who go to heaven. She said that she’s never seen anyone eat it. I asked her how one would know if they had been chosen, and she said that they would just know. I told her that she should eat it, but she didn’t think that was a very bright idea. Apparently, not all the “tickets” are sold.
She says that they don’t believe in hell, and that when you die, you are just dead. This is until I don’t remember what it’s called happens and there is paradise on earth and all are saved. Or most.
Also, they study these Watchtower magazines at their services - either more than or equal to how much they study their Bibles. She showed me a part in one the other day that was talking about how fornication of any kind between unmarried people is a sin. Weird.
I could be totally off on all this info. Maybe she told me wrong or I misinterpreted. Does anyone else know anything about that bread for the chosen people thing?