So who discovered America

Ya, I know… the Native Americans.
As far an Non-Native Americans go, we used to get taught that Columbus “discovered” the Americas. Now it seems as though most scientists allow that the Vikings were here for a short while around 1000 BC. Is there any solid evidence for visitors predating the Vikings?

Uh, there is very solid evidence that Native Americans came here before the Vikings! :smiley:

Seriously, though. It depends on who the continent was discovered for. It was discovered to Natives by the first folks across the Bering Strait. It was discovered to Scandinavians by the Vikings. It was discovered to Europe by Columbus. If an alien civilization were do happen upon us, they would consider yet another person to be the discoverer.

It all depends on whom you ask.

-Soup

1000 BC? I’ve always heard 1000 AD. If you do mean 1000 BC, please post a link. It’s my understanding that Germanic peoples hadn’t even discovered Scandinavia by 1000 BC.

I’ve heard of a story about Irish monks who came to America in 800 AD, but there’s no solid evidence to back this up; we knew the Vikings arrived around 1000 AD.

In the early fifteenth century, a Chinese admiral named He proposed a voyage around the world, leaving from China, going around Africa, and across the vast ocean back to China. He would have run into the same problem Columbus did, which was getting past the large disturbance in the ocean en route to China. He never got to take his trip; He was called back due to a revival in Confucianism that inspired the destruction of the navy and the expulsion of foreigners from Chinese soil. Had He gotten to go ahead with his trip, we would have had another name to add to the list of first-comers to America—or whatever he would have named it. (Plus, English-speaking historians would have a sticky time with the man’s name and the pronoun that it’s so similar to.)

There are lots of candidates. A few of those examples are a little intriguing, like the failed expeditions of the Kingdom of Mali, but most are based on pretty slim evidence.

vl_mungo might be referring to the “Woden-lithi” stone, mentioned in that suspect link above and which I have never heard of before, but which supposedly dates to 1700 B.C.E.

I’ve had the opportunity to see an exhibit of Olmec sculptures, and I found it to be very reminiscent of both African and Southeast Asian art, but I’m no expert.

1000 AD NOT BC… sorry, me idiot

Apparently, in West Virginia they have found inscriptions that appear to be written in the Ogham (old Irish) alphabet. I believe there are some doubts whether this is true or not though. In any case they are said to date from around 700-800.

There is also the legend of St Brendan the Navigator and some other Irish monks visiting Newfoundland around 500 AD. No evidence whatsoever for it, though.

Don’t Mormons believe that one of the lost tribes of Israel showed up here, but died out, much earlier than the life of Christ? Is there any archeological evidence for this, or is it all just written in the book of Mormon?

There’s a very small group of scientists who believe they’ve found evidence of south American drugs in 3-4000 year old Egyptian mummies. Cecil addressed it in a colum.

If some of these conclusions are correct then not only was contact made but sustained trade existed in the time of the Pharaoh’s.

I actually caught a documentary on this just the other day, from a series called Legends of the Isles. Apparently whatever “proof” there is comes from St Brendan’s description of things he wouldn’t have otherwise known about, such as glaciers and whales. A modern author/historian managed to follow St Brendan’s alleged journey across the Atlantic in a boat of similar construction to St Brendan’s own. He (the modern adventurer) was successful in that he managed to reach Newfoundland alive, which me struck me as the greatest challenge the monk and his brethren would have faced – crossing the Atlantic in a small wooden boat. Needless to say the program didn’t draw any definite conclusions, apart from suggesting that St Brendan, even with an active imagination, probably couldn’t have predicted the existence of such things as glaciers along the journey. IIRC St Brendan felt he was charged to come back and share knowledge of the New World as it was supposedly the Promised Land.

Actually, a leather boat.

I do not know whether Brendan did or did not make it across the Atlantic, but I find the claims that they would have seen whales, icebergs, and glaciers only near Newfoundland a bit of a stretch. Whales are not limited to the west side of the Atlantic. Icebergs could have been familiar to anyone who travelled far enough North while fishing. Glaciers can be found pretty easily in Norway. (The icebergs and glaciers might have been outside the ken of the Irish at the time of the Brendan voyage, but I would want something a bit more thorough than a TV show claim.)

Apparently there’s also evidence that the Chinese may have made it to Mexico sometime around the 6th century AD, calling the new land Fusang. It’s been written about, but I’m not sure how seriously the claim is taken by the historical community in general.

I’ve read about this in only one place…a “Cartoon History of the United States” my brother has. Supposedly, an old Chinese ship anchor has been found of the coast of California.

Some Chinese jade, too, I believe. Apparently the ocean currents would favor a voyage from China to the west coast of Mexico, and the return voyage as well.

Here is some interesting stuff on circumpolar navigation and settlement. The author suggests that caucasians may have migrated prior to asians.

The Vikings were probably the first to America from Europe (they had to find SOMEWHERE to play football :wink: ). From the other end the Peloponnesians may well have beat them.

I doubt that the Greeks beat the Vikings, but Cavalli-Sforza has found some interesting genetic evidence that the Polynesians may have made it to South America a long time ago. (Which would reverse Thor Heyerdahl’s speculations.)

Everyone knows it was actually Asterix and Obelix.

I had thought the Human Genome Project had managed to map out human migration patterns: it was a surprise that people migrated through Malaysia down to Australia, before going up and into Europe. I will try and find a source…

There’s a fascinating book entitled They All Discovered America by a fellow named Boland. Each chapter is devoted to a possible pre-Columbian discoverer of America, and some I’d never heard of before. Prince Madoc of Wales, Thorfinn Karlsefni, Joaoa Vaz Cotereal, Phoenicians, Romans – it’s quite a list. To which we should add the Mormon belief in their own folks, and the idea expressed about twenty years ago that Japanese sailors made it to Peru (! – and the article appeared in Scientific American, no less. There has since been cold water thrown on the idea, though)

Another book is Frederick Pohl’s Prince Henry Sinclair: His Voyage to the New World in 1398. Boland mentions him, too, although not in such detail. (This Frederick Pohl is Frederick J. Pohl, and isn’t the award-winning science fiction writer.)Interesting stuff, especially since it is claimed that his expedition left a monument carved in the rock in Westford, Mass. If you go there, you’ll find a chain around it and a monument to the monument. In fact, there are a lot of monuments to such pre-Columbian discoverers. Prince Madoc has a monument in Kentucky, Leif Ericson has a statue on Commonwealth Ave in Boston (complete with Viking ship), there’s a monument to Norumbega in Massachusetts, there’s a Mormon monument in Manti, Utah; the stone tower in Newport Rhode Island is, many believe, a pre-Columbian structure… I could go on.
Ultimately, even the most convincing of these arguments isn’t very convincing. The only accepted Pre-Colubus remains are the Viking settlements at Anse-Aux Meadows (Anse-Aux-Meduses) in Newfoundland.

Oops. I meant to say Polynesians.

Note to self, don’t type without brain being engaged.

I think who tried to settle is more important.

I have read that the chinese visited and said ‘nothing here’ and went home.

There has also been found ( no bull ) a tiny roman statue in a south american aztec grave… the romans may have been dead and a shipwreck BUT who knows.