I’ll take the Gold and the Franken-whozits.
It amazes me how many people buy into the idea of a religious Christmas. – there is no such thing.
The furries can have the Murr.
Bah. Any Dresden fan knows that Santa Claus is secretly Odin, anyway.
Why, indeed? Let’s explore that question, beginning with the last part of your post …
Wait … at your work? Don’t you have any of these marginalized religious minorities at your place of work, where they might be made to feel like oppressed outsiders at the mere sight of a Christmas decoration? On the streets, you say? Aren’t the streets full of these religious minorities, getting more marginalized and offended at the sight of every Christmas tree light they see? On TV? These religious minorities must have their own fainting couch on which they can swoon every time they turn on the TV in the month of December and see Santa! So if you feel free to celebrate Christmas in the ways you describe, you are clearly contributing to the alienation and persecution of religious minorities!
Well, no, you’re not, because the whole argument is stupid. If I were living in a predominantly Muslim country, I wouldn’t expect them to stop celebrating Eid in some misguided belief that it might marginalize me, nor to ban its celebration in public schools. Good thing, too, because they wouldn’t. Yet even that analogy is inadequate, because Eid is very much rooted in the closed rituals of religious practice, whereas Christmas has evolved over the years to become an inclusive western tradition that encompasses a great many secular and social customs and is celebrated throughout the western world and beyond – it’s been rightly described as a cultural multi-faith festival. Christmas is a holiday in Sudan, fer fuck’s sake – a nation that is 97% Muslim!
I’ve no doubt that there are some who come from greatly different cultures who might find Christmas celebrations new and different. I’m not “wrong” in that respect because I never said they don’t exist – I said I’ve never known anyone among the cultural and religious minorities that I’ve known who was upset by it. But the question is, which is the more productive policy – to condone and accede to what is an implicit request to curtail one of the oldest and happiest traditions of western civilization, or to celebrate it in a way that is inclusive of all cultures? Who is the more enlightened and likely to create the most social harmony, the politically hypersensitive jackbooted Christmas abolisher and prohibitionist of Christmas ornaments, or someone like the Orthodox Jew that I quoted upthread who said that diminishing the traditions of others adds nothing to his own faith, and wished everyone of all faiths a Merry Christmas?
You know, there was a time when Christmas was more of a secular holiday, but then there was the whole “put Christ back in Christmas” movement and the right talking about the war on Christmas. So if they want to make it a religious holiday, fine, but then get it out of our fucking schools Pick a lane you dumb ass conservatives and stay in it.
I’m just glad Trump is in charge now.
With any luck he will appoint Billy Bob Thorton as the official American Santa in charge of the holidays.
And then he will hire Krampus…the Scandanavian Santa Claus…fuck being offended you fucktards…now you can fear a hot poker shoved up your ass, your house burned down, and you soul being stolen…you’ll be praying for the ole days of yore and a hearty ho ho ho.
PS…watch the movie Strange Exports…that’s my kind of Claus.
How about Peter Crissmas?
An extremely valuable point. Too many people want to shove the “Christ into Christmas” and then get upset when Christmas is treated as a religious holiday. Secular Christmas advocates of whom I am sure there are plenty (including myself) need to get more vocal about shoving back (i.e., it’s based on Saturnalia, it’s about partying, good will, and having a good time, not religious flagellation.)
Romani in majority Muslim countries are Romani first and ad a layer of whatever the predominant form of Islam’s customs are to their activities. If they reach a point at which they put Islamic belief ahead of Romani cultural beliefs, other Romani would disown them.
Fascinating if true. Are there any real Romani who can verify or debunk this?
ZPG Zealot IS a real, fortune telling member of the Romani.
True, but I also have a Masters in Library Science and don’t panhandle, so I’m sure there’s some jerks that would say I don’t count. However, back to the topic at hand. Santa Claus’s would not seem to be a “Christian” symbol if only so many religious conservatives would not insist on throwing fits that “Jesus is the Reason for the Season” and try to ram religious belief down everyone else’s throats when they try to just have a good time during Christmas or Festivus. I don’t say “Happy Holidays”, I will usually wish people an “Orgasmic Saturnalia”. I think the later sounds more fun.
Bullshit. The reason you don’t count is that you repeatedly make claims about beliefs you describe as part of your culture that no one else, including a Romani poster, has been able to verify have anything to do with Romani culture according to any available source outside your fevered mind.
It is possible that ZPG Zealot is actually Romani, but she is not a reliable source of information about Romani culture. She hides behind her claimed ethnicity to justify a load of idiosyncratic delusions and beliefs that are not part of anyone’s belief system but her own.
Typical ethnocentric Westerner, any belief you do not agree with is bullshit and delusional. Seriously, have you ever met anyone out of your little white, middle class bubble? Are you a Trump supporter? A Fox news consultant?
Alan Smithee didn’t say your beliefs were bullshit and delusional because he didn’t agree with them; he said they were bullshit and delusional because no other Romani agrees with them being a part of Romani culture.
And from what I’ve read and seen, he’s right.
Well, every Romani I’ve ever encountered does. Guess, my entire community spanning multi-continents and family are delusional.
To be fair, they are also bullshit and delusional because no sane person agrees with them. She thinks shaking hands with a woman is as bad as raping her, and that adopted children would be better off being murdered. Seriously. I’m not painting her beliefs in the worst possible light. She has literally said both of those things. Search for it if you don’t believe me. I’m not going to hijack this thread with it any more.
Or you are a not a reliable reporter. I know which way I’d bet.
I’d bet that it’s you who is delusional.