So why is geography so important for me to have memorized?

In My Humble Opinion
1

(Not to pick on gracer, his post is just the most recent, plenty of people say things like this).

I probably couldn’t point to Iraq on a map, I know it’s in the Middle East, probably northish of the Arabrian Peninsula, but I couldn’t point to an exact geographic point and say “yup, definitely Iraq.” I don’t see why my geographic skills are so important to people. I’ll accept that a loose understanding of where the important countries are is good, people who think Japan is where Great Britain is, or that Australia is in the middle of Russia give a bit of pause, but so many people seem to jump on "oh my god, you can’t point to Dijbouti on a map!?’ as if I were about to blindly helm a ship there.

I don’t see why it’s incredibly important that I know precisely where Israel is, what its immediately neighboring countries are, and where its capitol is in relation to those countries. They’re facts, I can look them up if I need them. I don’t see any reason that I have to walk down the street every day ready to look at a blank world map and say “hells yeah, I could fill that in if I wanted to.”

Sure, maybe if I came into a conversation on foreign politics I may want to come in prepared about that region, but even then, I have my phone to look up a map really quick. Again, I’m not helming an 1800s naval vessel there, and even back then I’d have a map handy. The finer points of policy is not something I typically vote on, usually candidates give out very general views “I want to pull out of Iraq”, I don’t need to know precisely where Iraq is to diagnose whether or not I disagree with the statement. Even if I did (and I sometimes do), I can look it up at home, make my decision, and not bother memorizing where it is. I can make an informed decision with the information I gather, and then go into the voting booth or walk down the street remembering my decision but not 100% of the facts that led me to it.

Add on top of the Middle East example the fact that apparently I should know the map of East Asia (which I actually do), Europe, and Oceania, and that a lot of people seem to get offended that I don’t know exactly where a major city in their country is, and it seems like we really want people to have facts they could look up in two seconds memorized and ready for immediate retrieval.

Again, I’m not arguing that people shouldn’t know generally “oh the middle east is this part of the map” just that I think “yes, this country is definitely here, and here’s its capitol” doesn’t seem to be very useful beyond proving to the world you learned how to use flash cards.

2

Assuming you live in the USA:

[ul]
[li]Where is the Iberian Peninsula?[/li][li]Which is further west, Los Angeles or San Francisco?[/li][li]Do you require a passport to visit New Mexico?[/li][li]What is Tasmania?[/li][li]Is it faster to New York than by train?[/li][/ul]
Geography is part of a well-rounded education. Although you may not see a day to day need, it helps determine whether life is just about you, or how you fit in a tiny place in the world.

YKmMV

3

I don’t find that very compelling, I could use the same premise to argue everybody needs to learn astronomy. Hell, it wouldn’t be hard to modify the argument to say that everybody needs to learn computer science, or nuclear physics, or any such thing. While knowing all those things is certainly nice, there’s a reason that specialization and compartmentalization have been important since the industrial revolution and everyday objects started getting more and more complex.

ETA: I think if you wanted to make it so that life isn’t all about you, then learning about different cultures, languages, or even just psychology would be a better use of time than questions that can be solved with two minutes and a map.

4

You either engage the world around you or you don’t. There’s no onus for not doing so, but it makes you fairly uninteresting to others and limits your ability to participate in conversation. Again, if you don’t care about that, then don’t bother to expand your horizons.

5

Pretty much. To me it comes down to, how much ignorance are you willing to live with?

6

But again, what’s the point of memorization, I can have a perfectly normal, informed conversation since I can look it up within 10 seconds. Information age and all that.

I admit, I’m biased against memorization of facts (rather than processes or concepts) in general. Why memorize a fact when you can memorize how to get that fact from a smaller set of more basic, easily memorized facts (in this case, the way to read a map)?

7

It was very useful for getting me a career in the digital mapping and navigation industry. My formal background was in physics and computer programming. But it was my knowledge of geography, picked up informally over the course of a lifetime, that gave me the edge.

8

Well, yes, memorizing geography is a good idea if you want to get a job in geography related fields. That’s true for any knowledge outside your field, though, you get an edge when you want to go into a more niche field compared to those that don’t know about that niche.

9

As someone who, as a teenager, used to memorize US states and their locations* and other geographic factoids like that and still has an interest in geography, I think much the same as Jragon. I can see two reasons behind the interest in geography:

  1. Some people like thinking and talking about international politics and geopolitics. If you want to talk about that, it does make sense to have a good idea of geography.

  2. Yokels & morons often have very limited geographical knowledge. By having extensive geographical knowledge, people can signal “I’m not a yokel”. It’s possible to be a non-yokel while not knowing much about geography but you’re more likely to be taken for one if you don’t. It’s a class signaling method.

*I’m not American.

10

I disagree. Basic knowledge of where countries are is part of a well-rounded general knowledge that one would expect a child to know some of, and a voting adult most of - particularly a voting adult from a rather bellicose country with a habit of international expeditions. It’s geography only in the most basic sense. That the OP couldn’t pinpoint Iraq - and presumably therefore can’t name all its bordering countries - after two wars there and ten years of his country’s occupation thereof is pretty disappointing.

11

Well if your American, your country has been fighting various wars and enforcing no fly zones and so on and so forth in Iraq for the better part of two decades, so its been prominant in the news for at least that long. So not knowing where its located, while not really that big a deal in and of itself, kind of indicates that you

Not knowing where a less prominent country, on the other hand, doesn’t really indicate much about the person one way or another. Uzebekistan is close to the same size as Iraq, and I could tell you what region of the world its in, but if you asked me to name the neighbouring countries or point to its outline on a map, I could only make an educated guess. I don’t think that really makes me “not engaged in the world around me”.

12

Are you going to sit there Googling shit on your iPhone while talking to someone?

Because you can’t look up context. What good are processes and concepts unless you have the facts and information to put them in context? I mean what is the point of learning the cultures, languages, or psychology of different people when you can’t even tell someone where they live on a map?
I find this entire thread sort of bizarre on a message board where people have memorized the location of every village, town and county in Middle Earth.

13

That might be the case on an internet messageboard, but in any conversation IRL, it is going to be kind of awkward.

14

I do it all the time (well, when I talk to people, I rarely get the chance to talk to people recreationally), it’s really useful when there’s a disagreement on something to check the internet really quick. It’s better than bickering about an easily verified fact and getting nowhere.

What’s the point of knowing where someone is on a map? From what I see, knowing the exact geographic layout of an area by memory is like memorizing addition of all numbers up to 100 by rote. Much simpler to know the process to add two numbers, and then be given the numbers to add.

And I find that practice a bit odd too…

From memory, its bordering countries are Saudi Arabia (south, most of the peninsula), Turkey (north I think? I know Turkey is near Greece which is definitely northern of Iraq), Iran (to the East), Syria, maybe Jordan (less sure on that one), and I think there may be one other tiny country. I think it’s landlocked, if it isn’t it’s damn close to landlocked. I just couldn’t point to which set of lines it is.

But again, if I’m determining my politician’s views on Iraq, I can LOOK IT UP AT HOME while I’m in the mood and then make my decision, go into the voting booth with my decision and not bothering to spend three hours with flash cards memorizing the geographic layout.

15

Still sounds awkward, and frankly, rude.

And it is not about disagreeing about facts, it is about understanding geographic context when forming opinions about issues. How would you know what to look up if you are unaware of the geopolitical context of relations between countries?

16

So you admit to a substantial degree of ignorance about world geography, and your reaction to this realisation about yourself is to defend it instead of remedy it? I will venture a guess you are American, as no-one else shows this degree of self-satisfied arrogance on a widespread basis. If so you are part of America’s problem relating to the rest of the world.

The point isn’t day to day utility, it’s that it is demonstrative of an attitude and an arrogance which it would be more seemly to remedy than boast about. By the same logic you could argue that it’s OK to think the Sun revolves around the Earth, that humans rode dinosaurs, and that yoghurt grows on trees.

Your point about “being able to look it up in 10 seconds” is a feeble post-hoc rationalisation; weren’t you just as ignorant about these matters in times gone by when that wasn’t the case? Or did you walk around with a dictionary and atlas back then?

BTW the word is “capital”; a “capitol” is a building.

17

Kuwait - which the US liberated, and another teensy one called Iran.

You should know this shit without having to look it up.

18

I can thing of at least one other person:dubious:

19

To be fair, I’ve only talked to about three people recreationally for about 20 minutes in the past 6 months, and two of those times it required looking something up, so I don’t have the biggest sample size.

I was a child back then. So no, I’ve always had stuff (laptop, phone) around to look stuff up with. Why is knowing geography without a map more important than knowing integration or trigonometric identities without a table? They seem the same to me, yet people seem to accept math tables just fine.

20

All right, I’ll say it. I’m with the OP. This is why we have maps. I don’t need to memorize everything, and I am by no means a yokel or a moron. I read a lot, and the majority of my general knowledge comes from there. Geography just seems to be pointless to me, and on top of that, uninteresting and boring.

No way can I know about everything in the world. No one ever expects me to know where Iraq is on an unlabeled map. Labeled, of course I know the regions and general knowledge, but as the OP says, I am not helming a ship to get there or something. I know enough geography to function very well in the world.

I also firmly believe people have different concepts of maps anyway. You look at people who can easily find their way around and they have a very good map in their head. I don’t, and I rely heavily on road signs, directions, GPS, and other forms of navigation. Should I have to know every time how to get to a place? I couldn’t possibly. My mind just doesn’t work like that.

Same with geography. And I feel no guilt.