So why is Sports a way of life for so many people?

Great Debates
81

Even though these comments were directed at other posters in the thread, I still find myself complelled to respond nonetheless:

No, I don’t read any of the “TV Show Du Jour” threads in CS, and I do indeed wonder how people can be so fond of a TV show that they re-arrange their life to take into account the broadcast times. I mean, I enjoy a lot of TV shows, but I’d never dream of trying to get out of a shift so I could watch My Name is Earl.

To the extent of re-organising their life around TV broadcast schedules? Yes, definitely- I just can’t conceive how anyone can be that big a fan of a TV show.

Also true.

People keep mentioning all this “Skill” that sports players demonstrate when they’re playing… I just don’t see it in most sports. Basketball, and soccer, yes- I’ve seen some amazingly skilled maneouvres in those games. Rugby (and by Rugby I mean “anything referred to as ‘Footy’ except soccer”), not so much- if ever, in fact. Your results can and probably do vary.

I don’t see how anything that happens in a Rugby or Gridiron game could possibly be seen as “Greatness”.

And you’d be wrong. I was never beaten up in High School, had plenty of friends (including several girlfriends) and an active social life. Hating sports or not being able to understand them does not automatically make one a social outcast, nerd, and/or geek.

82

I think that part of the college football fever that I share with my husband is because we are in the SEC. It is often a way of life in certain families in the South.

Since my small hometown didn’t have football, I developed an interest only after I married into a family with a rabid Auburn patriarch. Of all of the football games that Auburn had ever played in its entire history, my father-in-law was present for a majority of them until his death in 1995. By the time I knew him, he was blind, but still going to the games. All it took was one game at Vanderbilt and I was bitten.

My husband and I married on New Year’s Day. It was a casual wedding – outdoors at the end of a covered fishing pier over a frozen lake. We just told our friends to go ahead a bring radios. We knew it was hopeless to fight the games. We were lucky to have anyone show up!

When I watch a good game of football – especially one with all of the traditions of Auburn – I have a sense of “home.” I’m in love with a small town and a drugstore and an eagle and a war cry.

But more than that, I am finally endowed with a surrogate physical power and when that team comes onto the field in Jordan-Hare Stadium, for once in my life I can beat the shit out of people.WAR EAGLE!

83

Under your assertion reading a book also produces nothing of value.

84

No, but not being able to understand something as simple as sports fandom does make you somewhat odd, in the very least.

I really can’t see this thread going any further. You’ve been given dozens of explanations and simply keep asserting, “I just can’t understand it.” Well, perhaps you should resign yourself to the fact that this is one thing you will never understand. Not everyone can understand everything.

85

May I extend my sympathies over what happened yesterday, Zoe. You must be devastated. I feel your pain.

86

I’m a very dedicated weightlifter and runner, but I I haven’t paid much attention to spectator sports since I was a kid (I was a rabid baseball fan then). I used to enjoy boxing, but Don King ended that. I used to be a competitive bodybuilder, but IMO that sport has become a drug-infested freak show. I might take a mild interest if my alma mater’s football team does well.

I find sports history interesting. Baseball and boxing are fascinating windows into life in early 20th-century America.

I concur with those who’ve said it’s hard to get worked up about large corporations that pull up roots and move at the drop of a hat if there’s better money elsewhere.

I once heard a comedienne say that she didn’t understand the fanatical concern over which side wins. “I like to watch ballet, but you don’t see me screaming at the TV, ‘Ohmygod, that was the lousiest pirouette I’ve ever seen!!’” I would agree with this sentiment.

When I encounter people who have a problem with my lack of interest in sports, I sometimes feign a fanatical interest in professional wrestling: I declare that it’s the only sport that isn’t fixed. Shuts them up fast.

87

Umm, Ellis Dee, you seem to have missed my point. I have no problem understanding the entertainment value of sports. I specifically said that. What I don’t understand is the emotional attachment to a team of mercenaries. The Olympics is the exact opposite. Any comment on the point I actually made?

88

Martini, get a copy of “Fever Pitch” by Nick Hornby. You’ll probably come as close to any form of understanding of how someone becomes a real fan as you will ever find possible by doing so. Which is of course not to say you’ll arrive at a complete understanding.

It is also funny and moving and a very good book.

89

I disagree that the Olympics are the opposite of mercenary. The tendency for athletes to go train all their lives in a different country and then represent the country of their birth in the Olympics is definitely mercenary. How many Olympic hockey players spend the majority of their lives in the US?

I did not miss your point about the emotional attachment; I specifically addressed it:

90

“I don’t understand it, therefore it must be easy.”

91

For sure.

Picture a man riding a bicycle, 40 yards away from you, and moving away from you at 20 mph. Throw a football (oddly shaped, and ill-suited for throwing) into a basket on his bicycle.

Pro & college quarterbacks can do that every time – and with a 300 lb lineman trying to kill him.

92

Just curious, are you saying that you think that, for most sports, the players do not demonstrate any “skills” beyond that of an average person?

If so, a few follow up questions:
Have you ever played a sport?
If skill is not the determining factor for a player making a team, given that there is a large supply of candidates and only a few spots, how do you think teams make their choices? Hair color?
How do winning teams make their choices? (Something gives them an edge, if not skill, could it be better sleep habits? Less drinking? More drinking? What is the secret?)

93

Ellis Dee, I’ve reread your post three times. I don’t see anything discussing the mercenary issue.

As for Olympic athletes also being mercenaries (and if that was your original point, you’ll agree I hope that it was pretty understated). Sometimes but not usually (in my casual observation). In American professional sports, it’s usually to the extent of almost always.

94

I’m not Ellis Dee, but I’ll take a stab at the “hired mercenaries” thing.

I know that not a single player on the St. Louis Cardinals’ roster is from the St. Louis area. Heck, the closest is Tyler Johnson, who’s from Columbia, MO. For that matter, I’M not even from the St. Louis area.

But I care about the Redbirds with a fervor normally reserved for… I’m not even sure what. Why? Because my great-grandfather, grandfather and mother were all Cards fans. I grew up watching and listening to them, and so I live and die by what they do on the field.

I’m the same way with University of Kentucky basketball (just look at my Location field,) to the point that it was one of the primary reasons I came to UK after high school. It’s not about where the players are from, it’s about a connection that I feel with the team.

Being a part of Cardinal Nation or Big Blue isn’t just some hobby or entertaining pastime, it’s a part of my personality. I would imagine that for fans of other teams, it’s the same way. Look at the sheer jubilation an entire region of the U.S. felt when the Red Sox finally won a World Series (grumble.)

95

Olympic athletes being mercenaries was not my original point; I didn’t make that argument until my followup. I stand by it, though.

I agree that the difference between pro sports and Olympics as regards to the mercenary issue is simply a matter of degree, but I don’t think the gulf is as vast as you do. Off the top of my head I can name plenty of players who have only ever played for my favorite team, the New York Giants:

Eli Manning
Jared Lorenzen
Tiki Barber
Brandon Jacobs
Amani Toomer
Tim Carter
David Tyree
Michael Jennings
Sinorice Moss*
Jeremy Shockey
Visanthe Shiancoe
Luke Petitgout
David Diehl
Chris Snee
Rich Seubert
Michael Strahan
Justin Tuck
Osi Umenyiora
Mathias Kiwanuka*
Eric Moore
William Joseph
Jonas Seawright
Barry Cofield*
Reggie Torbor
Chase Blackburn
Gerris Wilkinson*
Corey Webster
Frank Walker
Gibril Wilson
James Butler

Asterisks denote rookies, meaning they’ve never had opportunity to play for another team, so they don’t really count. Plus there is one or two that may have made the team that I forgot. But that’s 30 players in my list of guys that have only ever been Giants. There are 53 players on a team, so less than half the team is “mercenary.”

Now, tell me, what percentage of players from non-USA Olympic hockey teams play in the NHL? The difference between that number and the Giants’ number is nowhere near the difference between “sometimes but not usually” and “almost always.”

Hell, remember the Greek Olympics, and how they were letting anybody who even had a Greek relative play on the Greek teams? Tell me that wasn’t mercenary.

Note that because the Olympics don’t pay the athletes, the athletes aren’t playing for money, as opposed to professional sports. But my understanding of the use of the term mercenary in this thread is that players at some point leave the institution they are affiliated with to go to seek out a better opportunity. Other countries have hockey leagues. Let their hockey representatives comes from the leagues of their country and I’ll stop calling the Olympics mercenary. Same with basketball.

Imagine an NFL player was born in South Africa, moved with his family to Boston at the age of 2, grew up as a local football phenom, played great at Boston College, and got drafted by the Patriots. He’s a true hometown hero, yes? Well, if it were the Olympics, he’d be more associated with South Africa than Boston. And if gridiron were an Olympic event, he’d probably play for South Africa. That would make him mercenary for the Olympics. I am claiming that that kind of thing goes on way more than you’re giving credit for. Gymnastics, tennis, track & field; how many Olympians move to the US in early childhood to train their whole life here, and then go compete for the country of their birth? Tell me Sharapova identifies more with Russia than the US.

96

Well, no, Ellis Dee, that’s not what I meant by mercenary. I meant, How many of those guys are from New York? As you say, “from New York” (or anywhere) is an elastic concept, but it does have content. By way of comparison, when we rooted for our high school teams, those folks actually were us. At the pro level, they are not. I take brianjedi’s point that, for him (and probably you too) it’s the team, not the players that count. What I don’t get is why not. Or, stated a little differently, why do we swell up with local pride when a bunch of out-of-towners under contract win a championship?

As for mercinariness in American pro sports v. the Olympics, as I said, my sense is based only on casual observation, so I’m not prepared to go to the wall over this. But I do believe mercenaries in the sense I’m using the term are a minority, and probably a small minority at that.

Meanwhile, the implicit disdain you express for the Greeks “letting anybody who even had a Greek relative play on the Greek teams” is pretty much my point. Or take a hypothetical. Suppose Lichtenstein decides it wants a gold medal. Searches the globe for a contender. Hires a Kenyan marathoner. Gives him/her citizenship. He/she wins. Would you, as a citizen of Lichtenstein really feel that you had won a gold medal? Or merely bought one?

97

It’s 6 points. Then, the team that scored the touchdown has an opportunity to score an extra point by kicking the ball through the goalposts, or an extra two points if they get the ball into the endzone by running or passing the ball. Kicking the ball in those circumstances is usually referred to as an “extra point”, and running or passing is usually called a “two point conversion”.

98

Actually, what I feel when (for instance) the SF Giants win is not *local pride * at all. It’s just joy because the team I identify with – for whatever reason – is victorious.

When I watch the Olympics, it’s a much more detached experience. I feel only moderately connected to the American team/individuals; nothing like I do for a team I’m emotionally invested in.

99

I am completely unable to grasp your meaning. It simply does not compute for me.

When the Giants and Jets both made the playoffs in 2002, (an extremely rare event,) the whole area was abuzz with excitement. Walking into any gas station, deli, or basically any “neighborhood service establishment” wearing a Giants or Jets hat sparked immediate conversation among total strangers.

Not one person ever claimed local pride. It’s adopted pride; you choose the team you suspend your disbelief for. It would be like you asking me why people get excited about movies that are made in their town. (Cape Fear and Sleeping with the Enemy were both made in Wilmington, NC just before and during the time I lived there.) They were considered local movies despite the fact that none of the cast or crew grew up there.

As for your hypothetical about Lichtenstein hiring a ringer from Kenya to win them a gold medal, no I wouldn’t feel good about that as a citizen of Lichtenstein. I would feel that it was a bought victory. That’s the same way I feel about other countries sending their pre-pubescent prospects to train in the US for a decade before returning to compete for their native land. That medal is equally bought.

I think the disconnect is that you’re not understanding the premise of professional sports. Olympics and highschool sports are more about what region is better at whatever sport. Professional sports (in the US, at least) are not about that at all. They are about putting several dozen teams on equal footing and letting them fight it out to see who can manage a win. You never, ever hear about parity in the Olympics, but it’s a big buzzword in pro sports. It’s a completely different philosophy.

And having a local team really just means that you have more media access. I don’t feel any differently about the Giants than my brother-in-law feels about his beloved Steelers, and we live about 20 miles apart. Whereas in highschool or Olympic events it’s almost a character flaw to root for the other team, in pro sports everyone is completely free to affiliate with whomever they please for whatever reason.

Are you arguing that you can’t understand why anyone could ever root for a team that wasn’t comprised of their neighbors? Because, ya’know, most Olympic athletes on the US team probably grew up over a thousand miles away from you…

100

Hey PBear. I usually don’t bother with these kinds of threads because, generally speaking, “I don’t understand sports” is code for “sports are dumb, and you’re dumb for thinking they’re cool,” but I think I might be able to explain this a little bit.

Let’s assume, for the moment, that you really like to read, PBear. I don’t know for a fact that you do, but you must like something, and I figure on this board reading’s as good a bet as any. So, your parents read to you all the time as a kid, and you’ve always had a book nearby, all throughout your life, let’s say. You especially love, uh, Cormac McCarthy; he’s your favorite. What he writes really speaks to you – you understand it, it evokes powerful emotions, it’s great stuff. If another Cormac McCarthy book comes out, you’ll be all over it. Maybe you like his books because somebody you loved turned you on to him, maybe you stumbled upon Blood Meridian at a really emotional time in your life, whatever; there could be more or less concrete reasons that you’re a “fan,” but Cormac McCarthy is your “team.” You have other teams, but he’s your favorite, OK? OK, now me:

I played a lot of sports as a kid; that’s the first thing that’s probably important to keep in mind. So I know the language and the customs, I’ve been around the culture of sports, etc. It’s familiar to me. “My” teams are Florida State University football, University of Kentucky basketball, and the Philadelphia professional teams. By way of explanation, I went to Florida State, my family’s from Kentucky, and I personally grew up in Philadelphia, respectively. So I got my love of Florida State football from personally attending the games & from actually going to class with the students, my love of Kentucky from my family, and my love of the Philly teams from growing up in the town. Anyway, for reasons that maybe I can’t fully articulate or explain in rational terms, those are my favorite teams.

That parallel probably isn’t especially impressive to you, especially since you already said you understand the entertainment part (hell, you already said “I already said that”). Here’s the difference, the reason sports fans have more of the exterior manifestations of their geekiness – “my” team plays “Ellis Dee’s” team, twice a year. So, the reason I invented the McCarthy thing is this – imagine ol’ Cormac, for a couple months out of the year, participated in little writing contests against other authors. When Sunday afternoon rolled around, and the Cormac v. Dan Brown contest was about to begin on CBS, tell me you wouldn’t be sitting in front of the TV with a “the Kid” hat on. Come on. Tell me you wouldn’t want to see McCarthy wipe the floor with Dan Brown, so you could go into work and laugh in the faces of all those schmucks who told you how unbelievably controversial the Da Vinci Code was (If you’re a Dan Brown fan, I meant Tom Clancy. If you’re also a Tom Clancy fan, I meant either Al Franken or Ann Coulter; substitute as necessary). Because, you see, you’ve got something very important at stake in that case – if Cormac loses, he’s been declared inferior to the other guy. By extension, YOU’VE been declared inferior to the people who supported the other guy. Conversely, when Cormac wins over Dan Brown, you win over the Dan Brown fans. By virtue of the outcome of that contest, your preference has been vindicated.

That’s the key, as I see it. That’s the reason sports fans are so expressive and so, you know, obnoxious, about their fandom – because it’s constantly being tested. There’s direct competition; as a result, me and my fellow Philadelphia Eagles fans, as a group, are in competition with all the New York Giants fans, as a group. If my team wins on Sunday, on Monday morning I can walk into the office, or the classroom, or wherever, and say HAH! Philadelphia reigns supreme yet again! If one of the teams I root for had a really terrible season, all the fans of other teams would laugh and gloat about it, because they’d be on top. Sure, it’s vicarious, and it’s childish, but it’s real, to us, and I believe it would be real to anybody else if the subject of their geeky obsession was constantly being pitted against others’.