I want to see how differently this thread pans out compared to, say, leaving one’s baby inside an air conditioned car to die after the (stupid) engine suddenly decided to conk out. Or maybe locking one’s kids in the house while you’re away and suddenly there’s a fire.
Yes, but…
In those instances there was a round in the chamber and the hammer was cocked. (ETA-presumably)
Always unload a gun before cleaning. Never point a gun at another persons head (except in extreme self defense situations). Especially never point a gun at another persons head if the hammer is in the cocked position (unloaded or not).
So in this situation the dad was cleaning a gun without checking to see if it was unloaded… and pointed it at his son… and pointed it at his son with the hammer cocked. I’m having a hard time with accidental discharge in this case when the stupidity is so overwhelming.
So what if Dad has an IQ of 70? I perceive inappropriately fired guns as a natural outgrowth of US gun culture. The US has elevated homicide rates compared with gun-normal OECD countries. US states with lax gun control have more gun killings than other US states. Cite: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/
Other than closing the gunshow loophole though, I’m more interested in methods of advancing a more responsible gun culture. Gun ranges should be examined by third parties for proper safety practices and programs. Since the NRA is basically an industry lobby posing as a human rights group, they need to be supplanted. Use AAA as a model. There should be an ethic whereby friends and family can arrange to separate firearms from piss poor practitioners or people merely going through a bad spell. Statistics should be gathered comparing different self defense tools and techniques: the NRA pretends that the answer to basically everything is higher weapon sales.
Until this happens, even gun owners who responsibly -and commendably- emphasize the 4 Rules will be perceived as members of the gun nut community. They need to level up, collectively: they are compromising their own reputations.
Blowing the heads off a couple of dozen kids a years is the price freedom, my friends. If it makes you feel better, think of it like throwing virgins into volcanoes to satisfy the storm gods.
That’s just childish.
With respect, as a practical matter this is not true. You can beat someone to death with a pistol, shotgun or rifle. It’s been done many times. With or without rounds, a gun is a lethal instrument. If nothing else, it’s a hunk of steel. Hell a glock upside the head will coldcock you, and that’s composite materials.
Anyways, to me, the point is that we need to start treating firearms the same way we treat cars. They are legitimate tools that have legitimate (and even fun) uses, but which also require insurance for the damage they can cause and mandatory training, initial certification and periodic re-certification for operators to set state mandated standards which must meet minimum federal standards. Additionally there should be mandatory inspections of the tools to make sure they are in proper operating order and comply with all requirements to operate. They should be initially registered, and not be able to be sold without a title transfer. Weapons not meeting the standards or which have been illegally modified are subject to seizure and destruction. Owners/Operators without valid permits face minimum penalties for first, second and third offenses (which should be treated as a felony).
People get to have these tools, and the population at large becomes safer.
Regards,
-Bouncer-
You know that saying that some people say whenever they think it’s even remotely appropriate to a discussion, the one that goes “guns don’t kill people; people kill people with guns”? I’m guessing that neither the saying nor the sentiment are going to be much appreciated by the people who usually trot out this platitude.
Well, to be fair, you are really short and a woman. (and what a woman)
So “little lady” is appropriate.
Of course you should know that if you are point a gun at someone you usually will have their full attention.
Yeah, but they won’t respect you in the morning.
Word. And I say this with an AD to my credit.
The trouble is, that most gun owners are irresponsible twats. Because most people are irresponsible twats.
As long as guns are freely available, idiots are going to blow off the heads of innocent people.
The world is full of stupid morons. In other news, the new Pope is Catholic and bears are observed defecating in the forest.
You anti-gun folks are being ridiculous. Next someone is going to say that if he didn’t own a gun he wouldn’t have been able to shoot his child.
Again, you can repeat four rules like a mantra all you want. You can chant them like a magic invocation. It doesn’t matter. You may as well say “Rule #1: Don’t accidentally shoot someone.”
It’s not a question of rules, it’s a question of human capacities. The proof is always in the pudding.
You can put up a big sign that says “Rule #1: Don’t fall off the platform.” Eventually, you’re going to have to install a railing.
I’ve been thinking the same thing. Every summer people forget their sleeping children in the car and the child dies. Its tragic.
But I do think that this is different. I doubt you forget that your children are present when cleaning a gun. Maybe its because I drove little kids to daycare in my own sleep deprived state, and get how you can forget that they are there, but I haven’t cleaned a gun at home. It seems to me to be part of the basic safety precautions not to have young kids around when cleaning a gun, I’ve heard plenty of “I didn’t realize it was loaded” stories of discharging while cleaning. But maybe someone who has been there will tell me that its completely understandable why you’d clean your gun around kids, as I know that its completely understandable why, after four hours of sleep a night, you’d forget your sleeping kid in the car.
“Don’t fall off the platform” is a very general rule that requires a lot of judgment on the part of the adherent. People have varying degrees of judgment regarding what actions can be performed without falling off the platform, which is why railings end up getting installed.
OTOH, gun safety rules are made very simple - so simple a mentally retarded kid could follow them. They require very little judgment to follow. Is this gun loaded, yes or no? Am I pointing it at my son’s head, yes or no? Is my hand anywhere near the trigger, yes or no?
“Don’t accidentally shoot someone” isn’t a gun safety rule; it’s the outcome of following gun safety rules.
No shit. You’re completely missing the point. My point, once again, is that you can make all the rules you like. You can make them as simple as can be. All your simple rules don’t fucking matter one bit if people in practice cannot routinely follow them. Do you know what the phrase “The proof is in the pudding” means?
The question is, how well are people able to follow these very simple rules? How often do they fail to do so?
Can the people with regular experience with firearms state that they have not seen these rules being violated by others? Anaamika states that she sees men at gun ranges pointing their guns other than downrange.
Once again with feeling, you can make all the simple rules you like. The only proof that your rules are effective is if they are followed. And the number one problem with firearms is that there is such a limited tolerance for violations of the rules. Yes, they are violated without detriment many times. Many times the detriment is not fatal.
Still, in the end, guns are a no-take-backs proposition. You cannot get your finger or your child back.
The saying is actually ‘The proof of the pudding is in the eating’, which actually makes sense, unlike that weird nonsense.
I thought the anti-gun folks were really pro second amendment, who only want to ban assault weapons. Nobody here is suggesting we outlaw Joe Biden’s favorite weapon, the shotgun, do they?
Ugh.