Court resumed Friday as jurors must still decide whether to award punitive damages to the boys’ parents, Nancy and Karim Iskander.
Ouch. Don’t know if this will get cut down and of course even this actual amount is symbolic and completely non-recoverable. They’re rich, but neither Grossman nor Erickson have that kind of money. But that jury is absolutely sticking it to them.
Right, I am not a big fan of accidents being turned into murder, but in this case- drunk (not accidental) , speeding way over the limit (no accident) and hit and run- deliberate.
Massive lobbying by MADD making the Feds putting pressure on the states- agree to .08 or lose funding. All 50 states have that or more severe- Utah (no surprise) has it at .05.
IMHO- and often that of the law- deliberate acts- drinking and hit and run.
IF she had just stopped, called 911, and appeared traumatized and saddened by the accident- it is just possible her high powered lawyers might have made sure no murder charges. But that deliberate act- hit and run- made it clear that this was no simple “accident”.
Of course, they 'd still sue the crap out of her. There’d be drunk driving, and other misdemeanors.
I’ve had that happen to me before, late at night on I- 70 and eastbound west of Hays Kansas, in a Mercedes 300E, there is absolutely minimal sensation difference between 75 and 125 miles per hour…
You can’t feel velocity. You can feel things like road vibration, or hear engine hum, but those will translate into velocity in different ways in different cars, and the better the engineering is, the harder it will be to tell the difference even if you’re familiar with that particular car. And you can tell from visual cues, but some places (like much of Kansas) are very short of those visual cues.
Yes, I’ve driven the I5 between L.A. and the Bay Area (and occasionally the Eureka area), and during that stretch in the Central Valley I’ve often found I’m doing 90 or more without realizing it. That stretch is mostly flat and boring.
Yep. Modern fancy cars feel and sound nearly the same at 60 & 120. The only obvious difference is how fast the other traffic is being passed.
And how fast the neighborhood they were racing through is going past. Which suggests to me they were real used to driving this way late at night.
Well, there is another obvious difference - there’s the numbers on the dashboard saying “120” instead of “60”. I’m more than happy to concede that you might not notice 70 vs. 60, but that third digit on the speedometer is kinda glaring.
I think there’s a big difference in how it feels between speeding through a straight highway with nothing around and speeding through this neighborhood:
Only if it’s there to be glaring. On her car there is an electronic version of a traditional tach on the left, & an electronic version of a traditional speedo on the right. The middle can, & usually does display the speed but there are other things it can display, fuel mileage, trip/full odometer, tire pressures. If I’m in one of those screens, I have no clue what the speed is because I’m just used to ignoring the right-side gauge.
Not saying I’m doing triple digits, or even high double digits down city streets, especially after drinking a few but my speed isn’t right in my face.
Yeah I’d be way more concerned about being on the road with someone who does 100+ without realizing, than someone who decides “hey it’s 2am there’s no one on the freeway, let’s see what this baby can do.”
I’d be flat out terrified to be in front of the former guy the other guy is far more likely to get arrested than harm me.
More than anything, I was being sarcastic. C’mon. You may not know you’re doing 120, but you damn well know you’re driving really f’in fast, and it really doesn’t take that much to check the speedometer.
Ditto.
I have. I regularly drove a 4 cylinder k-car in my day-to-day life. Occasionally when visiting my Dad I would drive his 12 cylinder Jaguar. I quickly learned to keep one eye on the speedometer, as 85 in the Jag felt slower than 40 in the Dodge Aries.
There is a distinctive “pull” to the gearing in a slower car that just isn’t there. You don’t feel the gears change either, or the bumps in the road. There is no wind noise or engine noise - no rev as you move out of 4th gear into 5th. The acceleration is so smooth that you don’t feel your head go back (or trying to.) It’s a completely different sensation, and requires one to pay more attention to the gages.
Both my husband and I have noticed that it’s rather easy to have the speed creep up on open freeway in our 2016 Dodge Dart. Solution there is to be a reasonably responsible driver and check the damn speedometer fairly often. Neither of us has trouble keeping the Dart at reasonable and safe speeds in residential/commercial areas, though.
I don’t have the impression that anyone here is arguing that Grossman was driving responsibly; certainly I am not. But I do think it’s within the realm of possibility to not realize how fast you are going.
If the reports on her driving record are true, she was just a scofflaw who treated her town like a race track.
Yeah the issue of speed on freeways is pretty much a non sequitur. Going 90 on a quiet freeway is safer for everyone than going 35 in 30 in a residential neighborhood. And the drivers in the OP were going 80 in a residential neighborhood.
You might get pulled over for attempted speeding.
Nobody driving at 100mph on a city street is unaware that they’re going way too fast. Exact speed? Maybe not. But if you can’t tell you’re exceeding the speed limit on a city street when doing 100mph, you shouldn’t be driving.
Is it also within the realm of possibility to not realize that you’re street racing with your boyfriend? Around here street racing results in mandatory vehicle impoundment and license suspension and a $10,000 fine.
I have absolutely no sympathy for this woman, especially given her past record of constant speeding. I will say, though, that most people who have done similar things have suffered much more minor consequences, perhaps large fines, license suspensions, and maybe even short jail time, all in the service of what might have happened due to their dangerous behaviour. This woman was very unlucky in that pretty much the worst actually did happen, and the justice system reacts accordingly. But she bears full responsibility and deserves what she’s getting. It may be an old chiche, but “a lesson to others” is a valid principle of justice.
Given her history of disregard for traffic laws, I’d say this is at least as good an example of specific deterrence (preventing one individual from re-engaging in bad behavior) as it is general deterrence (a lesson to others).
We can be reasonably confident that this woman at least won’t be killing any ore children for another decade or so. Were she not in prison. I don’t think we could be so sure.
Your case is quite different because you would sometimes drive a much more powerful car compared to your normal underpowered one.
If you normally drove the Jag, I would expect you to develop a better sense for that car.
I also have a hard time believing that one could be going 80 mph in a 45 mph zone and honestly not realize it. If one really doesn’t have a rough sense of speed, then they need to be watching the speedometer.
The racing while drunk makes so much more sense.